Formula1

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szola
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Re: Formula1

Post by szola »

The tech advances have gone from ICE only for almost a century to ICE w/alternative fuels + Electric + Hydrogen

The last one seems to have the best promise for the environment so far. The electric driven cars have must higher potential to be greener. The recycling and manufacturing of the batteries are one aspect, of many. Solar + electric should be a very sustainable option for large parts of the globe.

Racing cannot function without the marked to deliver its advances. So the alternative fuel concept needs to step up it game asap. They are also going for alternative fuels in MotoGP in a few years time.
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view from the shires
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Re: Formula1

Post by view from the shires »

Ironing Board wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:26 am Yup. People forget a large part of Schumacher’s brilliance was the way he developed a car and led a team. Even my personal favourite Jim Clark didn’t have that unique mix of being the best driver, an inspiration to the team and the engineers while being able to give the guys building the car perfect feedback on how to make it better.

The Mercedes guys actually said Schumacher was the best person they have worked with, which shows just how unique he was.
Ecclestone recognised his talent and engineered his move to Ferrari, who had a certain top British designer there at the time. As Bernie said at the time "a strong Ferrari means a strong F1" It was all done to line his pockets and make Ferrari an unbeatable package. Ferrari still get more assistance than any other team.
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view from the shires
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Re: Formula1

Post by view from the shires »

BTW - also think it was a great drive by Max to win from his starting position. I thought the VSC prevented a possible grandstand finish, but Max would have won anyway.
Gaz
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Re: Formula1

Post by Gaz »

At Silverstone, when Vettel ran Mansell's car on synthetic, Karun Chandok (I think) mentioned that there are already discussions at some levels within F1 as to whether it would be feasible to ditch the hybrid components of the drive trains now, given the the future appears to be synthetic or electric. Massive re-engineering challenge no doubt, but it would remove a lot of complexity.

I think he is probably referring to old petrol head engineers getting optimistic that perhaps we may not be watching the slow decline of the ICE after all.

Although I suspect Porsche / VAG are involved in those discussion from a strategy standpoint and where they see the consumer market going, because it would be contingent to their decision to enter the sport.
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Denbighammer
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Re: Formula1

Post by Denbighammer »

The consumer market is going electric. And at a frightening speed.
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Re: Formula1

Post by Gaz »

It is at the moment - remains to be seen whether that will always be the case. The main objection to synthetic fuels at this point is the cost. But it's early days, once the manufacturing processes are optimised and scaled then the cost will drop, and more if consumers latch on to it.

Personally - as a motorcyclist, an electric bike is fine from a functional standpoint but the experience is so different that I am reluctant to go electric until I absolutely have to. So I am hoping that synthetics gain traction from an experiential standpoint, and I am sure there will be a lot of car drivers the same. I have no problems with my car going electric as long as the logistics and costs work out.

Long and short of it, I don't think the consumer market is 100% ready to go electric and I think the big car manufacturers are aware of that.
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-DL-
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Re: Formula1

Post by -DL- »

view from the shires wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:10 pm Ecclestone recognised his talent and engineered his move to Ferrari, who had a certain top British designer there at the time. As Bernie said at the time "a strong Ferrari means a strong F1" It was all done to line his pockets and make Ferrari an unbeatable package. Ferrari still get more assistance than any other team.
Schumacher never developed that car in so much as it was Ferrari building a car for Schumacher. Absolutely everything was tailored to him and his driving style.
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westham,eggyandchips
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Re: Formula1

Post by westham,eggyandchips »

Pretty inevitable really......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/62663761

Hasn't laid a glove on his team mate in terms of race pace or quali let alone the majority of the field. The merry go round starts again.
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wolf359
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Re: Formula1

Post by wolf359 »

westham,eggyandchips wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:32 am Pretty inevitable really......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/62663761

Hasn't laid a glove on his team mate in terms of race pace or quali let alone the majority of the field. The merry go round starts again.
Not bad £21million payoff for (one race aside) failing constantly. Time will tell how bad he was, I have a hunch the young Lando is rather good and is making the Aussie look worse than he is.

Let’s see who he pops up at, Williams or Haas! seem most likely but that is some fall from grace for Danny. Red Bull to back of the grid in 4 steps. It’s almost Alonso like
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Re: Formula1

Post by -DL- »

Can see him going back to Alpine.
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Re: Formula1

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-DL- wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:43 am Can see him going back to Alpine.
The Renault top bods apparently don’t want him, the French have Le ‘ump with the manner of his departure last time, but Alpine don’t have too many options.
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Re: Formula1

Post by sendô »

Yeah I can't see the Renault bods wanting him, although Alpine is not the Renault team of Cyril Abiteboul whatever his name is. Like Wolf, I suspect that Riccardo isn't as bad as Norris is making him look, and that Norris is a really good driver destined for a top team and possibly F1 championships in the near future.
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Re: Formula1

Post by Bend it like Repka »

wolf359 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:59 am Time will tell how bad he was, I have a hunch the young Lando is rather good and is making the Aussie look worse than he is.
I think it's a case of him just not suiting how McClaren build their cars.

Hard for mere mortals like me to understand, to me you are just trying to carry as much speed into an apex and carry as much out, but drivers talk about early turn in, responsive front end etc, if the car just doesn't do exactly what you like then driving at 100% must be impossible.

Don't think he ever liked how braking worked on the orange cars. I'd kind of think that was important. Maybe at his stage of his career it's too late to change.

Jenson Button on his day could be as fast as Lewis. But he had to have the car in exactly the right window, if it was off he was a gap behind. Only the real greats can adapt and make everything work for them to some degree.

If Aston had any brains they'd ditch Daddy's boy and get him in there.
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szola
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Re: Formula1

Post by szola »

Denbighammer wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:32 pmThe consumer market is going electric. And at a frightening speed.
Frightening?
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szola
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Re: Formula1

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Gaz wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:10 pm Personally - as a motorcyclist, an electric bike is fine from a functional standpoint but the experience is so different that I am reluctant to go electric until I absolutely have to. So I am hoping that synthetics gain traction from an experiential standpoint, and I am sure there will be a lot of car drivers the same. I have no problems with my car going electric as long as the logistics and costs work out.

Long and short of it, I don't think the consumer market is 100% ready to go electric and I think the big car manufacturers are aware of that.
Have you ridden an EV motorcycle?

The consumer market will go off regular petrol/diesel.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/califor ... -2035.html

F1, MotoGP and the rest of the ICE championships will need to push hard on the synthetic/carbon negative fuel from to stay relevant for the manufactures.
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Re: Formula1

Post by wolf359 »

Audi officially announced they are in from 2026 (no team yet, likely to be Sauber) . They've pushed electric hard so is this them hedging their bets or do they just want a bit of the lake of money F1 is generating at the moment.
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Re: Formula1

Post by Denbighammer »

szola wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:53 amFrightening?
Yes I don't think enough has been done to look at alternatives and we are rushing into this "electric at all costs" model for vehicles and infrastructure whilst other potential solutions are being dismissed out of hand.
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Re: Formula1

Post by Gaz »

szola wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:58 am Have you ridden an EV motorcycle?

The consumer market will go off regular petrol/diesel.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/califor ... -2035.html

F1, MotoGP and the rest of the ICE championships will need to push hard on the synthetic/carbon negative fuel from to stay relevant for the manufactures.
Yep, had a short try out on a colleagues Zero a little while back, it was weird at first but ultimately I enjoyed the novelty of it, it was smooth, very very quick but somehow less involving and engaging. There's also less that I can fettle with once I get it in the garage.

EVs definitely form part of our future but synthetic fuels sound promising to me.
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Re: Formula1

Post by Gaz »

Have Ferrari and Red Bull changed their floors now? Will be interesting to see if it makes a difference, Horner said it wouldn't.
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Re: Formula1

Post by wolf359 »

Gaz wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:17 pm Have Ferrari and Red Bull changed their floors now? Will be interesting to see if it makes a difference, Horner said it wouldn't.
One theory was that Perez was running a Spa 'legal' floor for recent races. He was well off the pace, if true then it might things interesting. Ofcourse they will use the Perez lessons and improve the design but a few tenths gained by Merc and the same lost by the front two would make life very interesting.
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