The Johnson Government 2019-2022

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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by -DL- »

That article is all over the place.

The amount of graduates we get come in to the bus industry that get dropped in to management positions straight away after a 4 week graduate management course is quite shocking - and to a person, they've been absolutely clueless and lacking basic people skills, as well as basic common sense - but they have a degree, so that's alright then.

One of my long-term ex's has a degree in psychology, and works as a counsellor. Mrs DL has a Social Work degree, and works in Social Care - so pray, tell me why someone with a ****ing art degree is qualified to run a bus depot?

Another ex has degrees in French and German, but she has since churned out loads of kids and does f*** all. :smiler:
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Prob »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:23 pm In the link you posted are we short of lawyers and scientists or film and media studies experts and interior designers?

It's fine sending 700,000 kids to uni but if they are getting qualified in things the workplace doesn't need there will still be a shortage while at the same time thousands of people end up stacking shelves with a BSc.

You are just making up the working class drivel tbh.
We are short of all of those, and the world is changing and with that so are jobs. The way technology is going, you won't need people to stack shelves soon. You already don't need supermarket workers once Amazon fresh technology gets put into supermarkets.

Its not working class drivel at all. The attack on the number of students going to uni always ends up an attack on those from working class backgrounds and trying to stop them from going to uni. There are huge financial costs with going to uni anyway and from next year the loan repayments will become even worse for students which will put some people off.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Prob wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:29 pm We are short of all of those, and the world is changing and with that so are jobs. The way technology is going, you won't need people to stack shelves soon. You already don't need supermarket workers once Amazon fresh technology gets put into supermarkets.

Its not working class drivel at all. The attack on the number of students going to uni always ends up an attack on those from working class backgrounds and trying to stop them from going to uni. There are huge financial costs with going to uni anyway and from next year the loan repayments will become even worse for students which will put some people off.
what i can't get my head around is that when there were grants, there seemed less people applying, yet now you'd end up with a mahoosive bill, loads are looking to go to uni..? :eh:

I do get the fact that apprenticeships and craft training are less available than years back, but still seems weird to me. As for rich people, its just an excuse for a three-year p*ss up, with a year traveling thrown in, surely?
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by delbert »

Prob wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:29 pm
Its not working class drivel at all. The attack on the number of students going to uni always ends up an attack on those from working class backgrounds and trying to stop them from going to uni. There are huge financial costs with going to uni anyway and from next year the loan repayments will become even worse for students which will put some people off.
Labour introduced student fees around 1998.......
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Plashet Grove Pete »

Prob wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:53 pm
The Tories love talking about too many kids going to uni doing useless degrees. What they really mean is too many working class kids are getting the chance to be the 1st in their family to gain degrees and go on and go to jobs that are paid well and where traditional jobs for the upper and middle classes. Tories think they shouldn't have access too.

They just don't like working class ambition.
I'm not a Tory voter, and I suspect you're not either, but I have to ask - do you really believe the statements you've made above?
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by RichieRiv »

I have worked on several grad programmes and had grads in my team. In the first instance, I had to reboot them, because the skills they learned at Uni (other than boozing) were not transferable in the workspace. They were no more use to me than school leavers were, other than grads love to tell you about their time at Uni and love to wear their uni hoody.

Modern-day apprenticeships is where we need to be. Earn whilst you learn and actually gain some practical skills along that way.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Tenbury »

I think a world where the value of learning is measured by how 'good' a job you end up in, is one I'm pretty glad to be contemplating checking out of.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

RichieRiv wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:26 pm I have worked on several grad programmes and had grads in my team. In the first instance, I had to reboot them, because the skills they learned at Uni (other than boozing) were not transferable in the workspace. They were no more use to me than school leavers were, other than grads love to tell you about their time at Uni and love to wear their uni hoody.

Modern-day apprenticeships is where we need to be. Earn whilst you learn and actually gain some practical skills along that way.
Trying to convince my lad to look into this rather than uni. Seems the competition is fierce, so not sure about his chances.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Tenbury wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:32 pm I think a world where the value of learning is measured by how 'good' a job you end up in, is one I'm pretty glad to be contemplating checking out of.
................... :shock: oh my god, you ok?
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by RichieRiv »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:33 pm Trying to convince my lad to look into this rather than uni. Seems the competition is fierce, so not sure about his chances.
Which sector?
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Oldun »

My son is 43 this year and did well at the local comprehensive and got decent O levels and stayed on to do his A levels.
He was like a lot of his mates who wanted to go to Uni ,all he did in the 2 years doing A levels was f*** about ,I put numerous threats in to him to buck up but he didn’t,he was away on a boys holiday when the A level results came in and can remember the silence on the other end of the phone when his mother told him what he got ,I can’t remember now what he actually got but I think it was a couple of barely passes and a couple of complete fails.
I spoke to him when he got home and told him in no uncertain terms to get off his arse and get up the city to get a job and forget all about Uni.
Give him his due that’s exactly what he did and got agency work at Nat West and used that on a stepping stone to get to where he is now.
He worked for numerous banks including the failed Bear Stearns and specialised in Distressed Loans closing.
He is now a Vice President at CITI Bank .
A lot of his friends who went to Uni never used the qualifications they did get and just left with debt.
I always looked at it that every working class family wanted their child to be the first one to go to Uni and I just saw a lot of Technical Colleges change to universities to get money from people.
I always believed if you work hard you will get on and work experience outweighs Uni qualifications.
It also helped my son deal with life ,being able to mix with his old mates who are Hazzy strippers builders and manual workers and also mix with Traders and high level bankers .

Also he resat his A levels and passed them after he started work.
Last edited by Oldun on Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

RichieRiv wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:52 pm Which sector?
He's looking at trying to get into law.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by RichieRiv »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:13 pm He's looking at trying to get into law.
Unfortunately not an area I ever touched upon. But if I have any ideas I will PM you.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Prob wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:29 pm We are short of all of those, and the world is changing and with that so are jobs. The way technology is going, you won't need people to stack shelves soon. You already don't need supermarket workers once Amazon fresh technology gets put into supermarkets.

Its not working class drivel at all. The attack on the number of students going to uni always ends up an attack on those from working class backgrounds and trying to stop them from going to uni. There are huge financial costs with going to uni anyway and from next year the loan repayments will become even worse for students which will put some people off.
Well I'd say interior design, film studies media studies etc are things that industry should be training people in if there is such a shortage.

How are they stopping kids going. 700,000 are going this year. How are they stopping the working class (whatever that is these days) in particular.

Loans are repaid based on future success, it's got absolutely nothing to do with your past or background.

The reason they are extending the payments is because so few people have to pay back.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:15 pm The reason they are extending the payments is because so few people have to pay back.
A old mate of mine still (probably) hasn't paid it back, despite having got his degree over 20 years ago. Hasn't stopped him earning a decent wedge overseas doing the EFL thing in places like Thailand, South Korea, etc..
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Prob »

Plashet Grove Pete wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:24 pm I'm not a Tory voter, and I suspect you're not either, but I have to ask - do you really believe the statements you've made above?
Well, it is the truth, look at what Tory MPs say about our uni education system and regs like the daily mail it is all to push the working class to think uni is pointless and not for them. When ever everyone starts moaning about degrees and student numbers it is always aimed at the working class who such just think about going out and getting a job and an apprenticeship because degrees are "useless".

Take into account that "male, white British, free school meals" pupils only 13% go on to higher education, and it is a situation far worse in post-industrial towns. Only 2% of white working class boys get into more selective, "high tariff" universities. Parental attitudes really matter to children and if all they hear is degrees are useless, Mickey Mouse overpriced paper. You are never going to level up those towns while students are let down by an education system that frankly the Tories do not give a crap about.
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:15 pm Well I'd say interior design, film studies media studies etc are things that industry should be training people in if there is such a shortage.

How are they stopping kids going. 700,000 are going this year. How are they stopping the working class (whatever that is these days) in particular.

Loans are repaid based on future success, it's got absolutely nothing to do with your past or background.

The reason they are extending the payments is because so few people have to pay back.
The same can be said for any degree from Doctors, Barrister to countless other professional jobs.

Under the new system coming into place in 2023 loan repayments threshold will lower, loan terms increased which means lower earners on £30k a year will repay more than someone on £50k a year. Seeing as most of those going into the NHS, teaching and other vital services will earn closer to the £30k mark, you punish them. While they have brought back some support for students doing degrees like Nursing, it is nothing compared to what they had a number of years ago.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

Tenbury wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:32 pm I think a world where the value of learning is measured by how 'good' a job you end up in, is one I'm pretty glad to be contemplating checking out of.
Tenners, I agree with you. I say that as someone who never went to uni, never even contemplated it - family circumstances meant it wasn’t on my radar. Now I work for several unis and I actively fight this ridiculous idea that all students should aspire to graduate jobs rather than ones that they like and would want to do. So long as they can get by, and I get that that is increasingly hard for people in all sorts of jobs.

Far more importantly mate - those last few words of yours. You have been an absolute star on these pages and please let that continue. The ‘mental health’ thread in the Snug is full of great people who can help far more than a a muck like me. Please reach out to them if you haven’t already. If you just need a chat - please PM me. Dave. X
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Prob wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:04 pm The same can be said for any degree from Doctors, Barrister to countless other professional jobs.

Under the new system coming into place in 2023 loan repayments threshold will lower, loan terms increased which means lower earners on £30k a year will repay more than someone on £50k a year. Seeing as most of those going into the NHS, teaching and other vital services will earn closer to the £30k mark, you punish them. While they have brought back some support for students doing degrees like Nursing, it is nothing compared to what they had a number of years ago.
Of course it could. Expanding a system that's wrong doesn't make it right

Repay more?
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by bubbles1966 »

Prob wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:29 pm We are short of all of those, and the world is changing and with that so are jobs. The way technology is going, you won't need people to stack shelves soon. You already don't need supermarket workers once Amazon fresh technology gets put into supermarkets.
In the 1980s it was often said that "Offices won't need people because of computers." The NHS employs how many office staff these days?

Instead of using a pen, they now use a keyboard. One giant step for mankind.
The attack on the number of students going to uni always ends up an attack on those from working class backgrounds and trying to stop them from going to uni.
The critique of degrees is around low quality/low return on investment courses which lead to the borrowers defaulting on their loan repayments. That's no good for the student who is saddled with debt, nor the taxpayer whose money has been used for that purpose.

Studentry seems to exist in a world of it's own currently when it comes to borrowing other people's money. Normally there is some kind of credit score, business plan assessment and/or seeking of collateral in case of bad debt. University tuition seems exempt. It's a matter of time before that changes.

I'd suggest that is often the traditional working class who are most hostile, regarding the outcome of some of Blair's mantra as frivolous study of luvvie-like courses undertaken by the middle class which they end up paying for.

"What are you going to do with that?" is often the response of those who need to think about financial choices. The working class.
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Re: The Johnson Government 2019-2022

Post by Prob »

bubbles1966 wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:13 am In the 1980s it was often said that "Offices won't need people because of computers." The NHS employs how many office staff these days?

Instead of using a pen, they now use a keyboard. One giant step for mankind.
The technology is getting there, sure it won't replace office workers in total, but there is already AI technology they read radiology reports and scans that is used in the NHS.

Technology will improve and change our work force, we already see with self check out counters in supermarkets that you now only need to employ a handful of people to man them over a larger number to man physical tills and over time as Just Walk Out technology will become more used you need even less staff. Many of us are using cash less and less now.

The next step will be AI tech for mass delivery, meaning postal services are not needed.

There are huge challenges for any government that if they want to be serious about levelling up the education system needs to ripped apart and rewritten. But all this government is doing is baiting with "woke" culture and leftie educational system and turning the working class against each other
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