sendô wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:53 pm
I didn't say they were victims. Yet you know I'm right, and alluded to it yourself in your comment.
You're right that she made her racist comment because she perceives Kwasi to be "acting white". You're dead wrong that "white people are fair game". Black people who "act white" (which they have to do, to an extent, to get in any position of power) are fair game. Kwasi's race is already being counted against him, because you know she isn't the only person who feels this way. Is Keir's race being counted against him? Liz's? No, we all know who is making certain people uncomfortable sitting at the top table.
This is a lot of sympathy I'm giving for someone who just delivered a truly shameful and idiotic budget. If only people would judge him for being a shitty politician, and not a successful black man.
Junco Partner wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:07 pm
Common sense from Starmer today:
“Whether you’ve voted leave or remain, you’ve been let down.” So true.
A publicly owned Great British Energy company that will share the rewards of the renewable revolution.
Energy companies footing skyrocketing bills instead of their profiteering being funded by our borrowing.
New jobs insulating our homes.
Strong on no deal with the Scot secessionists.
And this zinger....
"'The Government has lost control of the economy.
And for what? Tax cuts for the richest 1%.
Don't forget. Don't forgive"
Finding his feet it seems.
Yup, liked what I heard today. Whether or not he and his party can actually deliver on it, who knows? Gotta be worth a shot, though, this country cannot continue being shafted by the cons.
Collison Theory wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:24 pm
You're right that she made her racist comment because she perceives Kwasi to be "acting white". You're dead wrong that "white people are fair game". Black people who "act white" (which they have to do, to an extent, to get in any position of power) are fair game. Kwasi's race is already being counted against him, because you know she isn't the only person who feels this way. Is Keir's race being counted against him? Liz's? No, we all know who is making certain people uncomfortable sitting at the top table.
This is a lot of sympathy I'm giving for someone who just delivered a truly shameful and idiotic budget. If only people would judge him for being a shitty politician, and not a successful black man.
Collison Theory wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:24 pm
You're right that she made her racist comment because she perceives Kwasi to be "acting white". You're dead wrong that "white people are fair game". What does 'acting white' mean? Black people who "act white" (which they have to do, to an extent, to get in any position of power) are fair game. Kwasi's race is already being counted against him, because you know she isn't the only person who feels this way. Is Keir's race being counted against him? Liz's? No, we all know who is making certain people uncomfortable sitting at the top table. I don't know. Who are they?
This is a lot of sympathy I'm giving for someone who just delivered a truly shameful and idiotic budget. If only people would judge him for being a shitty politician, and not a successful black man.
Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:51 pm
What does 'acting white' mean?
I don't know. Who are they?
Rupa Huq said what it means earlier. Going to a posh school, talking a certain way. She could have added the people he associates with, and the way he dresses. It's a racist concept that is held by black and non-black people.
Well, Rupa Huq for one. What she has demonstrated is that to be successful in a certain way is, to some, to inherently negate your blackness. I doubt she would be uncomfortable with him cleaning up after her, but she is with him in the number two job.
Collison Theory wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:24 pm
You're right that she made her racist comment because she perceives Kwasi to be "acting white". You're dead wrong that "white people are fair game". Black people who "act white" (which they have to do, to an extent, to get in any position of power) are fair game. Kwasi's race is already being counted against him, because you know she isn't the only person who feels this way. Is Keir's race being counted against him? Liz's? No, we all know who is making certain people uncomfortable sitting at the top table.
Mate, the term "acting white" is clearly being used negatively here. That's not a difficult concept to grasp.
As to Kwarteng himself, the vast majority have a problem with him being where he is because he's the usual lickspittle Tory yes man for their billionaire paymasters, but him being black has clearly not held him back.
Collison Theory wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:24 pm
You're right that she made her racist comment because she perceives Kwasi to be "acting white". You're dead wrong that "white people are fair game". Black people who "act white" (which they have to do, to an extent, to get in any position of power) are fair game. Kwasi's race is already being counted against him, because you know she isn't the only person who feels this way. Is Keir's race being counted against him? Liz's? No, we all know who is making certain people uncomfortable sitting at the top table.
This is a lot of sympathy I'm giving for someone who just delivered a truly shameful and idiotic budget. If only people would judge him for being a shitty politician, and not a successful black man.
Kwasi's race? Keir's race?
There is only one race... human. The race that we are all born, one and the same, regardless of everything.
To see the colour of a person and ascribe that to a race is to view through the eyes of division. And it is that division, drawn upon so many lines and force fed to us by those who wish to profit from it that has kept us, as humans, from peace and harmony for countless centuries. Division based upon the shallowest of reasons...colour, creed, religion, sex, gender, politics.
dasnutnock3 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:26 pm
Yup, liked what I heard today. Whether or not he and his party can actually deliver on it, who knows? Gotta be worth a shot, though, this country cannot continue being shafted by the cons.
There’s a hell of a lot to deliver there. I liked the energy ownership part the most. Although he touched upon hiring more doctors and nurses, I just wish he’d come out and talked about NHS reform and admitted that it needs to be modelled differently. Agree that Starmer hit the right tone in his speech and for the first time sounded plausible and positive about what his party has to offer, rather than merely talking about the opposition. That has to be how the Labour party goes forward by presenting themselves as a positive force rather than the usual bunch of militant whingers with a chip on both shoulders. It’s a bad look. The non-affiliated, like myself don’t want to hear that rubbish, we want to hear properly thought out positive solutions. Next I’d like to see Starmer have a cull of the characters within the party that have built a career on chip on shoulder politics. I’d start with Rayner and Lammy.
Collison Theory wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:12 pm
Rupa Huq said what it means earlier. Going to a posh school, talking a certain way. She could have added the people he associates with, and the way he dresses. It's a racist concept that is held by black and non-black people.
There's a complicated and nuanced conversation to be had about people from any background who seemingly act against the real or perceived interests of the wider community they come from (in that regard, we could maybe talk about a Tory who was "superficially working class" for example) and there was an interesting thing going on with the Tory leadership contest with the number of Tories presenting their family stories of immigration as huge success stories while simultaneously demonising all modern immigration.
BUT the thing that demonstrates to me that Rupa Huq had no intent to participate in that debate, and just did so in a clumsy way, is that she had practically the same upbringing as Kwarteng (privately educated, Cambridge, etc.) and presumably doesn't consider herself "superficially Asian" as a result.
I have no time at all for Kwarteng, but it's difficult to read her comment as anything other than this is a black man getting above his station, which is shameful.
dasnutnock3 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:44 am
Good job Huq didn’t go to a fee paying school, otherwise on top of a nasty racist, she might well end up appearing to be a pathetic hypocrite as well.
I don''t get this letting your community/culture down, perhaps as I am white, but be easier if we all just considered ourselves British.
Anyways, onto more important things than a spanner like her. I also thought Starmer done well yesterday, he seems to be growing in confidence which is a good thing. He/Labour party now need to continue about filling the holes in regarding policies, what they really stand for etc. He has the big MO, needs to keep that going. Pull the Tories up in PMQs, but then away from that concentrate on the Labour message. Plus, cull a few more nutjobs in his party..
Collison Theory wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:12 pmRupa Huq said what it means earlier. Going to a posh school, talking a certain way. She could have added the people he associates with, and the way he dresses. It's a racist concept that is held by black and non-black people.
Well, Rupa Huq for one. What she has demonstrated is that to be successful in a certain way is, to some, to inherently negate your blackness. I doubt she would be uncomfortable with him cleaning up after her, but she is with him in the number two job.
So pretty much like anyone from a working - middle class, who wishes to 'improve' their 'standing'?
Clacton-ammer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:21 am
I don''t get this letting your community/culture down, perhaps as I am white, but be easier if we all just considered ourselves human.
Change British to human, and you go from letting a small section (community/culture based upon a notional element i.e colour, land of birth, religion etc) down, to letting everyone down. Every single person. All of us.
Well aside from the moronic our of order comments by one mp (which have been swiftly delt with) some interesting things come out of the conference
PR
nationalise railways
Publically owned British energy company based on renewables etc
Can get behind all of them
Some will say oh but how we paying for it.. in the same way we paying for these policies now which fail. Only difference is that we have something to show for it .
Bring on 2024, if their is anything left in the economy by then. We really need an election sooner
I genuinely hope Starmer can deliver on what he said in his speech. He still has a way to go yet, as there are still some holes in it - but it's a step in the right direction.
We need a genuine alternative to this shower that we have at the moment - and right now it's an open goal for Labour - and if Starmer isn't the next PM at a GE, then he would have ****ed up on a monumental scale. It's his to lose.
I love my local MP, she's absolutely brilliant, but sadly, because of the party she belongs to, I cannot give her my vote if a GE were to be called - so come on Keir, show us exactly what you're made of sunshine - make me want you to be PM. Make me want to not put an X in the box next to Kelly Tolhurst name. Convince me, and millions of others like me.
I am one of those strange breeds as I have no affiliation to any party, voted red & blue in my time. The peeps that have supported Labour from voting age, do you think Starmers Labour is creeping more to the centre, and that is part of the attraction, or it's just the shower in govt now? Or maybe both?
mumbles87 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:45 am
PR
nationalise railways
Publically owned British energy company based on renewables etc
Genuine question, but don't think any of those are actually supported by the Labour leadership are they?
Starmer's only policy at the moment seems to be "be less crap than the Tories", which is paying off right now, but not sure it's going to pull in the necessary voters come a General Election (likely under a new Tory leader - or Boris) and when the tabloids start rolling out the Corbyn-style smear tactics against him which they've been keeping in reserve.
