SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:01 am
They have to tell people they have integrity. That's not something you tell other people you have, it's something other people see that you have. Hopefully there are a few politicians with integrity left somewhere, there must be a few out of the limelight that don't have their snout in a trough or get their friends influence. Some that don't fiddle expenses or hire family members, that don't break the laws they oversee, that stick to their principles but accept others principles as just as valid. I'd say following Corbyn and Johnson purging their parties there are likely to be even less than they used to be.
My old football coach used to tell us that the main differentiator between our level and elite players was "will to win". I think the same's true of politicians.
You need to look outside the government and shadow cabinet. There are lots of politicians doing good work that aren't desperate enough to climb the slippery pole. Principles are a barrier to progression.
Good point on R4 'Today' was what if the old bill 'fudge' it by not charging because of lack of convincing evidence ie. 'the law might have been broken' ? Expect Starmer would stay but it would remain a stick to beat him with.
Monkeybubbles wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:13 am
My old football coach used to tell us that the main differentiator between our level and elite players was "will to win". I think the same's true of politicians.
You need to look outside the government and shadow cabinet. There are lots of politicians doing good work that aren't desperate enough to climb the slippery pole. Principles are a barrier to progression.
I believe that this is the case in most industries, I have worked with complete a-holes who should not even be given brooms to sweep up with, but due to their ambition/ruthlessness seem to move on and up.
-DL- wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:37 pm
I'm not going to trawl back through the thread, but somebody asked me last week before I went away, what it would take for me to vote Labour.
I don't want to derail the thread and go point to point on your list DL, but Corbyn did offer a lot of what you've listed, or else offered something similar.
At any rate, none of the other parties are offering any of this (as far as I can tell at first glance), so is your current party of choice (whoever they are, assuming you have one) held to the same standards?
I'm not having a dig. I'm actually interested in people's perceptions of what each political party should be about.
vietnammer wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:13 am
Good point on R4 'Today' was what if the old bill 'fudge' it by not charging because of lack of convincing evidence ie. 'the law might have been broken' ? Expect Starmer would stay but it would remain a stick to beat him with.
That is a good point, and probably where we'll end up.
It's a mess, although some bloke/lad on QT last week(?) suggested (and I'm paraphrasing here) 'you shouldn't blame Boris for partying because they were stupid rules anyway'
-DL- wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:37 pm
I'm not going to trawl back through the thread, but somebody asked me last week before I went away, what it would take for me to vote Labour.
Does this mean you're not going to vote, as nobody offers what you're asking for?
sendô wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 1:24 pm
I don't want to derail the thread and go point to point on your list DL, but Corbyn did offer a lot of what you've listed, or else offered something similar.
At any rate, none of the other parties are offering any of this (as far as I can tell at first glance), so is your current party of choice (whoever they are, assuming you have one) held to the same standards?
I'm not having a dig. I'm actually interested in people's perceptions of what each political party should be about.
I don't have a party of choice. Never have had, which leads me on to what MB has asked - no, I won't be voting - as none of them offer the slightest thing that interests me, or has any policies or manifesto that even makes me have the slightest inclination.
I basically did say that nothing on that list was going to happen - all I ask is a party that gets my interest, and actually has a leader that I think would be good for the country as a whole.
I'm kind of in a pickle, because our local Tory MP is brilliant - and yet - I don't want to vote for her in 2024, because it's a vote for Boris.
Yes, our "vote for your local representative who will ride up to London and represent your constituency's interests by banding together with like-minded MPs" system is redundant.
Everything needs an overhaul. Especially local government.
It always amuzes me in the aftermath of an election with the winner bright-eyed and enthusing how they are going to make a difference, I think to myself oh yes, just wait for the whips to get hold of you
Tenbury wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 6:03 am
Whatever their political persuasion, I'm in favour of politicians being chained to trees.
Can't it be railings or something instead? What's the poor tree done to deserve that? At least hippies and green protesters actually care about the tree....
41% see him as principled. 23% as unprincipled. By contrast, 14% think Johnson is principled.
31% see him as trustworthy and 36% see him as untrustworthy. Those figures are unchanged since April. Again by contrast, only the 12% who haven't been paying attention or have been living under a rock consider Johnson trustworthy).
So on the face of it, 'beergate' hasn't (yet anyway) affected his ratings.
When it comes to competence, 40% think Starmer is competent whilst 25% think Johnson is
Starmer needs to get those figures higher but even if he doesn't, the difference between people's perception of him and Johnson is stark.