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old fart
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by old fart »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:55 am Labour MP resigns over sexual misconduct



By-election incoming.
Giles Brandreths old seat
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Danny's Dyer Acting
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

The Labour leader, Keir Starmer held a phone-in on LBC this morning. Here are the main points.
  • Starmer said he put his head in his hands when he heard Boris Johnson wanted to return as PM. He said:

    When [Johnson] first said that he was going to run, and everybody was sort of rallying around, I did put my head in my hands and think, so, really, we’re going to go from the prime minister who’s just crashed the economy ... back to the guy that only ... months ago, most of us were saying was unfit for office. It was never going to work, I don’t think.
  • Starmer said that there was “not a great deal” between Labour and the Tories in their support for a points-based immigration policy. Labour would scrap the Rwanda scheme, under which people arriving in the UK seeking asylum can be sent to Rwanda, Starmer said. But on immigration generally he said:

    Now we don’t have free movement any more, then you either have a pure numbers game or you have a points-based system that says ‘well, for certain types of jobs, certain types of roles here, you would get a number of points’. I think that makes sense. So, in that sense, not a great deal between the major parties on immigration. We would have a slightly different approach and I would particularly want to welcome really good students. I feel that over the years we’ve put good students off coming here and many of them have ended up going to Australia and Canada and the US. I would want to see the best possible students coming to this country to study.

  • He said Labour would not grant new oil and gas licences. “We accept there’s got to be a transition, so where there is oil and gas already being yielded that needs to continue as part of the transition, but no new sites, no new fields to be opened,” he said.
  • He said Labour would not rejoin the EU under his leadership. “We’re not going back into the EU,” he said. “That isn’t a position of my party, that isn’t what an incoming Labour government would do.”
  • He said he and other Labour figures will not attend the World Cup in Qatar because of its human rights record.
Please note, I'll be copy and pasting the section in the middle whenever anyone bangs on about Labour being for "open borders".
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by delbert »

He only speaks for Labour whilst he is their leader, freedom of movement is a principle of socialism so one of the cranks might gain power and reverse that policy........
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by jabbaglob123 »

delbert wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:22 pm He only speaks for Labour whilst he is their leader, freedom of movement is a principle of socialism so one of the cranks might gain power and reverse that policy........
There's no chance labour will ever be like it was under Corbyn again. I think a centre-left party and centre-right party is what would be healthiest for our country. We need boring politics that gets the job done, none of the cultist far right and far left nonsense, it's divisive and leads to chaos. Starmer is a healthy option for this country and I think he would be a fantastic PM.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by sendô »

delbert wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:22 pm He only speaks for Labour whilst he is their leader, freedom of movement is a principle of socialism so one of the cranks might gain power and reverse that policy........
You mean like the chances of one of the cranks seizing power in the Conservative party........ ?
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by bubbles1966 »

jabbaglob123 wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:01 pm There's no chance labour will ever be like it was under Corbyn again.
It will.

Five years of a centrist Starmer (Blair) administration hamstrung by finances, will have the Corbyn tendency straining at the leash. I guarantee you that certain type of leftist thinker will be saying, "we didn't vote Labour to get a Tory government or Tory budget" if (well, when) that happens

Nothing much ever actually changes in life, it just goes round in cycles.

Some 25-30 year old Labour voter in the year 2000 would have said there was no chance of them ever being like it was under Michael Foot.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

We've got the usual thing on here of saying how Labour might possibly, perhaps, conceivably become extreme at some point down the line, whilst hoping that no-one dwells on the fact that the Conservative government have been tank-the-economy-and-wreck-peoples'-lives extreme this very month. The hypothetical against the they've-been-genuinely-disastrous reality.

It's like someone kicking you hard on the shin and then saying the next person who comes along might kick your shin too. :)

One of the problems the Tories have apart from the fact they are ungovernable and irretrievably split is that their old tried and trusted ammunition is spent, running out or simply far less effective than it was.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by delbert »

sendô wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:36 pm You mean like the chances of one of the cranks seizing power in the Conservative party........ ?
Ignoring that that's the whataboutery you pull others up for. :winker: Yes, exactly..........
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Ralph Mellish »

I listened to the LBC interview and Starmer also said he will continue backing Tom Watson for a peerage.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Friend or Foé »

Ralph Mellish wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:39 pm I listened to the LBC interview and Starmer also said he will continue backing Tom Watson for a peerage.
Is he still hanging around Dolphin square ?
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by bubbles1966 »

Labour tells MP Nadia Whittome to delete Rishi Sunak tweet: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-63405307

"Not a win for Asian representation"

Follows on from Rupa Haq about Kwarteng : https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 28551.html

"superficially black"

This is what's sitting behind Starmer.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by hammers92 »

bubbles1966 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:13 pm This is what's sitting behind Starmer.
He was very quick to pull both up. Neither of them would get anywhere near a Cabinet job anyway.

Both parties have a fair few who need to be mindful of their own language.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by sendô »

Boris Johnson would probably have promoted both.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Prob »

bubbles1966 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:13 pm Labour tells MP Nadia Whittome to delete Rishi Sunak tweet: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-63405307

"Not a win for Asian representation"

Follows on from Rupa Haq about Kwarteng : https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 28551.html

"superficially black"

This is what's sitting behind Starmer.
Rupa Haq no longer holds the whip and is currently suspended from the party

Nadia Whittome had action taken against her by the party whips
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by delbert »

It's actually a good strategy by Starmer, don't go after the party's cranks and freaks simply because they're Corbinista's, let them publicly purge themselves, that way there should be no way back for them.
Where it will go wrong is if he's seen to either ignore or forgive this transgressions. On the subject of trans, this Eddie Izzard thing following on from the whole cervix thing isn't doing him any favours, he's managed to wedge himself between a rock and an uncomfortable hard place........
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by 'stone hammer »

delbert wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:03 am On the subject of trans, this Eddie Izzard thing following on from the whole cervix thing isn't doing him any favours, he's managed to wedge himself between a rock and an uncomfortable hard place........
It really is a no-win answer for him; advocating for trans rights and protecting women's rights does present something of a conflict. I think he's smart to avoid the question for now and keep the searchlight off himself and firmly on the Tories.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

delbert wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:03 am It's actually a good strategy by Starmer, don't go after the party's cranks and freaks simply because they're Corbinista's, let them publicly purge themselves, that way there should be no way back for them.

Where it will go wrong is if he's seen to either ignore or forgive this transgressions. On the subject of trans, this Eddie Izzard thing following on from the whole cervix thing isn't doing him any favours, he's managed to wedge himself between a rock and an uncomfortable hard place........
I agree with your first paragraph Delbs. Regarding the second, the percentage of people who are going to give two shits about this in 2024 compared with other real* issues is going to be vanishingly small and I suspect largely limited to those who would never vote Labour in a million years.

First poll out with Sunak as PM - Tories on 28%, Labour on 51%. You can't go by one poll but let's do it anyway - that 22% lead is down by about 9% since YouGov's last poll. Looks good at first glance but they needed more of a boost than that and to see Labour still in the 50s tells me two things - a). for many, there's nothing the Tories can now do - most of us are sick of them regardless of a new face at the helm and b) Starmer and co are doing alright.

Labour won't get 50% at the GE but the Tories need something special from hereon in.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by sendô »

Prob wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:34 am
Nadia Whittome had action taken against her by the party whips
To be fair to her, I can't see much wrong with this. I'd imagine it's purely the "isn't a win for asian representation" which is probably poorly worded, and meant to mean that he isn't representative for the average British Asian person.

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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by delbert »

DaveWHU1964 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:00 am I agree with your first paragraph Delbs. Regarding the second, the percentage of people who are going to give two shits about this in 2024 compared with other real* issues is going to be vanishingly small and I suspect largely limited to those who would never vote Labour in a million years.
Cosmopolitan Labour voters won't give two shits mate. They still have to appeal to the more grubby working class voters though, the people that tend to deal with reality over ideology, the people they have already partly alienated. Whilst the Tories are no doubt doing Labour's job for them, they will still have some ground to make up........
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by OFT »

sendô wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:53 am To be fair to her, I can't see much wrong with this. I'd imagine it's purely the "isn't a win for asian representation" which is probably poorly worded, and meant to mean that he isn't representative for the average British Asian person.
Nor I.
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