The Labour Party Thread
Moderators: Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks
- Danny's Dyer Acting
- Posts: 8983
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm
- Has liked: 642 likes
- Total likes: 1853 likes
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21689
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 290 likes
- Total likes: 1020 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:29 pm "Labour have no policies."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ses-courts
"We are doing all we can to prosecute rape cases but there are a number of challenges," he said. "Rape often takes place in a private setting where the victim is the only witness but it does mean that victims will almost always have to go to court. We can offer special measures but some victims decide they are not prepared to go to court and face down the person they say is the assailant.
"Many perpertrators target vulnerable victims and that may mean these are people who find it especially difficult to deal withe the criminal justice system."
He said that a correlation could not be drawn between few rape allegations bering false yet almost half of police cases not resulting in charges. "A case may fall for a whole host of evidential reasons,"
- Danny's Dyer Acting
- Posts: 8983
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm
- Has liked: 642 likes
- Total likes: 1853 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
So Starmer knows how **** the system is under the Tories, he had to try to run it.
Your point?
Your point?
- Denbighammer
- Posts: 12871
- Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:53 pm
- Location: Dodging, Dipping, Diving, Ducking and Dodging.
- Has liked: 697 likes
- Total likes: 431 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
What was the system like from 97 to 2010?Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:21 pm So Starmer knows how **** the system is under the Tories, he had to try to run it.
Your point?
- Danny's Dyer Acting
- Posts: 8983
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm
- Has liked: 642 likes
- Total likes: 1853 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
No idea. I'm going to go somewhere between not as good as it should be but better than 1894-1906.
I'm not looking to go back to Blair & Brown's government. I'm looking for a group of people that want better than we have now and don't feel the need to twerk for the Daily Mail & Rupert Murdoch as they get there.
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21689
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 290 likes
- Total likes: 1020 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
Nothing to do with him? Emily Thornberry didn't think so. Half the period in question was under a labour govtDanny's Dyer Acting wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:21 pm So Starmer knows how **** the system is under the Tories, he had to try to run it.
Your point?
Lots of the numbers he is talking about were worse under his watch than they are today. Both under the Tories.
My point really is just that imo a lot of this stuff could come back and bite him a bit. It's the stuff the mail will dig him for and his DPP days aren't exactly popular with a lot of the more far left in his party.
- Danny's Dyer Acting
- Posts: 8983
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm
- Has liked: 642 likes
- Total likes: 1853 likes
- delbert
- Posts: 27174
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:27 pm
- Location: Barking, home of the slowly meandering Prius
- Has liked: 698 likes
- Total likes: 697 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
They've got one less now:Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:29 pm "Labour have no policies."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ses-courts
https://news.sky.com/story/starmer-u-tu ... s-12658870
Oh well, as one door closes and all that........
- sendô
- Posts: 44309
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
- Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
- Has liked: 2424 likes
- Total likes: 2634 likes
- btajim - mcfc
- There when they were sh*t
- Posts: 9879
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:40 am
- Location: Cheshire
- Has liked: 72 likes
- Total likes: 440 likes
- Contact:
Re: Next Labour Leader
Starmer should be obliterating the Tories but he isn’t. I think Labour’s long term man should be Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham. He just needs to be an MP again.delbert wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:58 pm They've got one less now:
https://news.sky.com/story/starmer-u-tu ... s-12658870
Oh well, as one door closes and all that........
- sendô
- Posts: 44309
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
- Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
- Has liked: 2424 likes
- Total likes: 2634 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
Isn't he? Most polls that I can see put voting intention for Labour ~40-42% vs the Tories at ~32-34%.btajim - mcfc wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:44 am Starmer should be obliterating the Tories but he isn’t.
https://www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voti ... scorecard/
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21689
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 290 likes
- Total likes: 1020 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
I don't think I've seen anywhere predicting a labour majority though. I suppose the worry for starmer is its the Tories obliterating the Tories. Something that could change -although unlikely with the 2 leader candidates.sendô wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:16 am Isn't he? Most polls that I can see put voting intention for Labour ~40-42% vs the Tories at ~32-34%.
https://www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voti ... scorecard/
The next year will be crucial. Can starmer get enough seats without some sort of coalition. If not does he do a deal before or after an election.
It's entirely possible the Tories get largely wiped out and we get large, but not large enough, labour and lib Dem parties. 170 Tories, 150 lib Dems, 280 lab, 50 SNP kind of thing. A coalition with 2 pretty powerful parties would be something we haven't seen.
- OFT
- Posts: 21534
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
- Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
- Has liked: 2993 likes
- Total likes: 1757 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
I suspect(know )we don't agree on much politically jim but on that you're spot on. That a politician such as Burnham felt it necessary to leave parliament to run for mayor is a sad reflection of the Labour party at the time. if ever there was a time for a 'comeback' it should be now.btajim - mcfc wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:44 am I think Labour’s long term man should be Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham. He just needs to be an MP again.
whatever ones politics we need the best we can get in the HoP and Burnham seems to be better than average.
- -DL-
- Bag Man
- Posts: 30097
- Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:43 am
- Has liked: 837 likes
- Total likes: 4952 likes
- Contact:
Re: Next Labour Leader
Burnham can come back and be Labour's saviour, but if Rory Stewart was to also come back to parliamentary politics, I suspect that would be check mate to the Tories.
(I quite like both of them, fwiw).
(I quite like both of them, fwiw).
- sendô
- Posts: 44309
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
- Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
- Has liked: 2424 likes
- Total likes: 2634 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
Yes, nothing predicting outright majorities at the moment, although that's more of a reflection of our FPTP system.SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:00 am I don't think I've seen anywhere predicting a labour majority though.
Any deal will be done after the election. Neither Lebour not the Tories will concede to entering any sort of coalition or deal before a GE that would make them look weak in the face of the electorate.SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:00 amThe next year will be crucial. Can starmer get enough seats without some sort of coalition. If not does he do a deal before or after an election.
Absolutely no chance the Lib Dems get 150 seats. They only managed 57 in 2010 when Nick Clegg was as popular as any Lib Dem leader has ever been. I couldn't even tell you who their leader is now without googling.SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:00 amIt's entirely possible the Tories get largely wiped out and we get large, but not large enough, labour and lib Dem parties. 170 Tories, 150 lib Dems, 280 lab, 50 SNP kind of thing. A coalition with 2 pretty powerful parties would be something we haven't seen.
Re: Next Labour Leader
I don't alot of people in the public understand how big of a swing Labour need to win with just a ‘majority of one' is 10.52% larger than Blair in 1997 which was a swing of 10.2%.
Take Scotland out Labour need a swing of 13.8% which is bigger than 1945 election in which the great PM ever got elected
Add that there is a boundary change coming in before the next election which are likely to disproportionately benefit the Conservatives. The swing becomes even bigger.
Corbyn and his group put Labour in a really bad position. People don't vote how they used to now and will swing between parties. In the past that sort of swing needed would take a political party 10-15 years. But it won't as people voting has changed.
Labour has worked with in the lib dem in the past in 1997
Take Scotland out Labour need a swing of 13.8% which is bigger than 1945 election in which the great PM ever got elected
Add that there is a boundary change coming in before the next election which are likely to disproportionately benefit the Conservatives. The swing becomes even bigger.
Corbyn and his group put Labour in a really bad position. People don't vote how they used to now and will swing between parties. In the past that sort of swing needed would take a political party 10-15 years. But it won't as people voting has changed.
Labour has worked with in the lib dem in the past in 1997
- OFT
- Posts: 21534
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
- Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
- Has liked: 2993 likes
- Total likes: 1757 likes
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21689
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 290 likes
- Total likes: 1020 likes
- EvilC
- Posts: 18221
- Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
- Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...
- Has liked: 2625 likes
- Total likes: 1178 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
I really like Stewart and am alright with the King in the North. I agree, I suspect Stewart would see him off.
- Turns to Stone
- Posts: 15456
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:21 am
- Location: Tony Almeida
- Has liked: 229 likes
- Total likes: 1455 likes
Re: Next Labour Leader
I see lots of people saying 'Starmer should be murdering the Tories'. The reason he isn't is because people keep voting for Tories. For whatever reason - people are clearly happy to carry on with what is happening right now and with the government that is in power. To me, the Labour party are eminently more electable than they were a few of years ago. Their leader is not a maniac, they've sidelined a good number of the wacky bastards in their party, they've got some half-decent ideas and...let's be honest, those in charge have had an absolute stinker. But still nothing changes. I genuniely believe that if Labour put up a leader who was a cross between Ironman, Han Solo and David Attenborough - the same people would still say 'Well, they really should be murdering this lot shouldn't they?'
The reason they're not murdering this lot is because people are still voting Tory. And I expect them to carry on voting Tory, because clearly that's what they think is the right thing to do. It's mental to me. Because if it carries on at the rate we're going the Tories are going to run out of leaders before Labour get back in. If you think that Starmer should be murdering the Tories - then clearly you think that the Tories are doing a dreadful job. So stop voting for them.
The reason they're not murdering this lot is because people are still voting Tory. And I expect them to carry on voting Tory, because clearly that's what they think is the right thing to do. It's mental to me. Because if it carries on at the rate we're going the Tories are going to run out of leaders before Labour get back in. If you think that Starmer should be murdering the Tories - then clearly you think that the Tories are doing a dreadful job. So stop voting for them.