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Danny's Dyer Acting
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:29 pm "Labour have no policies."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ses-courts
"We are doing all we can to prosecute rape cases but there are a number of challenges," he said. "Rape often takes place in a private setting where the victim is the only witness but it does mean that victims will almost always have to go to court. We can offer special measures but some victims decide they are not prepared to go to court and face down the person they say is the assailant.

"Many perpertrators target vulnerable victims and that may mean these are people who find it especially difficult to deal withe the criminal justice system."

He said that a correlation could not be drawn between few rape allegations bering false yet almost half of police cases not resulting in charges. "A case may fall for a whole host of evidential reasons,"
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Danny's Dyer Acting
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

So Starmer knows how **** the system is under the Tories, he had to try to run it.

Your point?
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Denbighammer »

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:21 pm So Starmer knows how **** the system is under the Tories, he had to try to run it.

Your point?
What was the system like from 97 to 2010?
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

Denbighammer wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:38 pm What was the system like from 97 to 2010?
No idea. I'm going to go somewhere between not as good as it should be but better than 1894-1906.

I'm not looking to go back to Blair & Brown's government. I'm looking for a group of people that want better than we have now and don't feel the need to twerk for the Daily Mail & Rupert Murdoch as they get there.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:21 pm So Starmer knows how **** the system is under the Tories, he had to try to run it.

Your point?
Nothing to do with him? Emily Thornberry didn't think so. Half the period in question was under a labour govt

Lots of the numbers he is talking about were worse under his watch than they are today. Both under the Tories.

My point really is just that imo a lot of this stuff could come back and bite him a bit. It's the stuff the mail will dig him for and his DPP days aren't exactly popular with a lot of the more far left in his party.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

Labour are knocking it out of the park with their most recent ads.

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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by delbert »

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:29 pm "Labour have no policies."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ses-courts
They've got one less now:

https://news.sky.com/story/starmer-u-tu ... s-12658870

Oh well, as one door closes and all that........
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by sendô »

Sunak and Truss are about to cross the floor, aren't they?
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by btajim - mcfc »

delbert wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:58 pm They've got one less now:

https://news.sky.com/story/starmer-u-tu ... s-12658870

Oh well, as one door closes and all that........
Starmer should be obliterating the Tories but he isn’t. I think Labour’s long term man should be Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham. He just needs to be an MP again.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by sendô »

btajim - mcfc wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:44 am Starmer should be obliterating the Tories but he isn’t.
Isn't he? Most polls that I can see put voting intention for Labour ~40-42% vs the Tories at ~32-34%.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voti ... scorecard/
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

sendô wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:16 am Isn't he? Most polls that I can see put voting intention for Labour ~40-42% vs the Tories at ~32-34%.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voti ... scorecard/
I don't think I've seen anywhere predicting a labour majority though. I suppose the worry for starmer is its the Tories obliterating the Tories. Something that could change -although unlikely with the 2 leader candidates.

The next year will be crucial. Can starmer get enough seats without some sort of coalition. If not does he do a deal before or after an election.

It's entirely possible the Tories get largely wiped out and we get large, but not large enough, labour and lib Dem parties. 170 Tories, 150 lib Dems, 280 lab, 50 SNP kind of thing. A coalition with 2 pretty powerful parties would be something we haven't seen.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by OFT »

btajim - mcfc wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:44 am I think Labour’s long term man should be Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham. He just needs to be an MP again.
I suspect(know :grin: )we don't agree on much politically jim but on that you're spot on. That a politician such as Burnham felt it necessary to leave parliament to run for mayor is a sad reflection of the Labour party at the time. if ever there was a time for a 'comeback' it should be now.
whatever ones politics we need the best we can get in the HoP and Burnham seems to be better than average.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by -DL- »

Burnham can come back and be Labour's saviour, but if Rory Stewart was to also come back to parliamentary politics, I suspect that would be check mate to the Tories.

(I quite like both of them, fwiw).
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by sendô »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:00 am I don't think I've seen anywhere predicting a labour majority though.
Yes, nothing predicting outright majorities at the moment, although that's more of a reflection of our FPTP system.
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:00 amThe next year will be crucial. Can starmer get enough seats without some sort of coalition. If not does he do a deal before or after an election.
Any deal will be done after the election. Neither Lebour not the Tories will concede to entering any sort of coalition or deal before a GE that would make them look weak in the face of the electorate.
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:00 amIt's entirely possible the Tories get largely wiped out and we get large, but not large enough, labour and lib Dem parties. 170 Tories, 150 lib Dems, 280 lab, 50 SNP kind of thing. A coalition with 2 pretty powerful parties would be something we haven't seen.
Absolutely no chance the Lib Dems get 150 seats. They only managed 57 in 2010 when Nick Clegg was as popular as any Lib Dem leader has ever been. I couldn't even tell you who their leader is now without googling.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Prob »

I don't alot of people in the public understand how big of a swing Labour need to win with just a ‘majority of one' is 10.52% larger than Blair in 1997 which was a swing of 10.2%.

Take Scotland out Labour need a swing of 13.8% which is bigger than 1945 election in which the great PM ever got elected

Add that there is a boundary change coming in before the next election which are likely to disproportionately benefit the Conservatives. The swing becomes even bigger.

Corbyn and his group put Labour in a really bad position. People don't vote how they used to now and will swing between parties. In the past that sort of swing needed would take a political party 10-15 years. But it won't as people voting has changed.

Labour has worked with in the lib dem in the past in 1997
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by OFT »

-DL- wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:50 am Burnham can come back and be Labour's saviour, but if Rory Stewart was to also come back to parliamentary politics, I suspect that would be check mate to the Tories.

(I quite like both of them, fwiw).
All in favour of it
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

sendô wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:08 pm Absolutely no chance the Lib Dems get 150 seats. They only managed 57 in 2010 when Nick Clegg was as popular as any Lib Dem leader has ever been. I couldn't even tell you who their leader is now without googling.
It would need a tactical voting pact in place with labour.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by EvilC »

-DL- wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:50 am Burnham can come back and be Labour's saviour, but if Rory Stewart was to also come back to parliamentary politics, I suspect that would be check mate to the Tories.

(I quite like both of them, fwiw).
I really like Stewart and am alright with the King in the North. I agree, I suspect Stewart would see him off.
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Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Turns to Stone »

I see lots of people saying 'Starmer should be murdering the Tories'. The reason he isn't is because people keep voting for Tories. For whatever reason - people are clearly happy to carry on with what is happening right now and with the government that is in power. To me, the Labour party are eminently more electable than they were a few of years ago. Their leader is not a maniac, they've sidelined a good number of the wacky bastards in their party, they've got some half-decent ideas and...let's be honest, those in charge have had an absolute stinker. But still nothing changes. I genuniely believe that if Labour put up a leader who was a cross between Ironman, Han Solo and David Attenborough - the same people would still say 'Well, they really should be murdering this lot shouldn't they?'

The reason they're not murdering this lot is because people are still voting Tory. And I expect them to carry on voting Tory, because clearly that's what they think is the right thing to do. It's mental to me. Because if it carries on at the rate we're going the Tories are going to run out of leaders before Labour get back in. If you think that Starmer should be murdering the Tories - then clearly you think that the Tories are doing a dreadful job. So stop voting for them.
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