The Labour Party Thread

[DaveWHU1964]

I don't think Johnson should resign for the Birthday cake FPN nor do I think Starmer should resign for the Currygate. The issue with Starmer is he made such a song and dance about it, he's put himself in a difficult situation

By paying the FPN Johnson's already admitted his guilt for the birthday cake 'event'. Let's see if Starmer is found guilty, but if he is, then I think that these are relatively equivalent 'events'. Your opinion is that they should stay. Mine is that they should both go but Johnson should be long gone already. He isn't of course because he has zero shame, zero honour and zero integrity.

You say the issue with Starmer is that he has made a song and dance about it. That's only true if he himself is found guilty for his offence. If so then, yes, he's a hypocrite. If he's not though, then has very right to point out that law makers shouldn't break the law and should resign if they do.

The issue with Johnson though is that he is the man who created the laws and told us to abide by them every night on the covid briefings, for what felt like forever. The other issue is this whilst the two events you mentioned are, imho, roughly equivalent the one Starmer is accused of is the only one (he should still go if guilty) whilst the birthday one is the lesser one of several instances when Johnson broke his own laws and then ) if he admits to his guilt for other offences like he eventually did for the birthday party, then he has lied and lied again in parliament about it. That is a resigning matter on its own.

Forget politics for a minute./ This isn't an issue of right or left. It's about integrity in public office. It's about not being able to lie to our representatives and bear no consequences. oooh, literally just hearing on the news that Starmer will resign if he is issued an FPN. Good man. That's leadership. That's taking responsibility. That's an example that Johnson should have set already but he's just far too much of a dishonest, immoral **** to do the right thing.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

Has Starmer been tipped the wink there'll be no fine for him? Has saying he'll resign if fined put pressure on the police? Will he stand again for the leadership if he does resign?

Whatever the 'what ifs', he's made a smart move.

[DaveWHU1964]

We have serious problems heading our way that we know about (war, financial stresses, energy crisis) and that needs strong leadership.

Do you think Johnson is providing strong leadership?

[Hummer_I_mean_Hammer]

Maybe he's decided that the top dog position isn't for him after all and can use the investigation to shame Boris?

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

Has Starmer been tipped the wink there'll be no fine for him? Has saying he'll resign if fined put pressure on the police? Will he stand again for the leadership if he does resign?

Whatever the 'what ifs', he's made a smart move.

If there is no fine then it's just hot air. He can point and say he was willing to but without proving it it doesn't convert anyone to him does it?

If he resigns and immediately stands again it would be political suicide. Nothing would make him look less trustworthy than the whole thing being a trick

I get the desperation to get across you are trustworthy but he will now face 'will you resign' every time something crops up.

[sussexhammer74]

Do you think Johnson is providing strong leadership?

Nope, far from it. He is a bumbling idiot.

I think politics is at an all time low in this country. When a politician is asked a question, the majority start their answer with what the other party are doing, what the other party may do. They never seem to answer on what they will do, always blame or mock the other side.

[Turns to Stone]

If there is no fine then it's just hot air. He can point and say he was willing to but without proving it it doesn't convert anyone to him does it?

If he resigns and immediately stands again it would be political suicide. Nothing would make him look less trustworthy than the whole thing being a trick

I get the desperation to get across you are trustworthy but he will now face 'will you resign' every time something crops up.

Every time a politician breaks the law, they should resign. What's weird is not that Starmer has suggested it, but that Johnson hasn't.

Your post suggests that Johnson's leadership is already lowering our already rubbish expectations of our leaders.

[-DL-]

Has Starmer been tipped the wink there'll be no fine for him? Has saying he'll resign if fined put pressure on the police? Will he stand again for the leadership if he does resign?

Whatever the 'what ifs', he's made a smart move.

Pretty much my take on it too.

And the old cynic in me does wonder as to whether he's come out with his statement, with this quote from BBC political editor in mind:

It places a colossal responsibility on the shoulders of Durham police: their decision could finish the political career of a man who hopes to the next prime minister.

If that's the case, it could be a smart move indeed -as the Chief Constable of Durham Police has already come out previously and stated that it will not be taking retrospective action over lockdown breaches - something she said when Durham Police were under pressure to investigate Cummins.

If they did decide to fine Starmer, they'd then be under pressure to re-open the case against Cummins, and then where does it stop - especially when she is on record saying the above.

He's not going to be fined - and I suspect he knows it too - regardless of whether he did actually breach it or not. Precedent has been set - so it's easy to say he'd resign when giving him a FPN would open a massive can of worms that Durham Police would no doubt rather keep a lid on.

[MB]

Durham plod guidance seems very clear that they do not issue FPNs retrospectively (see Cummings for example) so very possible Starmer knows he'll get told he is a naughty boy but no FPN = doesn't resign based on his statement today. Just the thing you'd expect a lawyer to do, but I think it will play badly with the public.

A misstep IMHO.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

Every time a politician breaks the law, they should resign. What's weird is not that Starmer has suggested it, but that Johnson hasn't.

Your post suggests that Johnson's leadership is already lowering our already rubbish expectations of our leaders.

They shouldn't resign they should just be kicked out imo

My expectations can't really lower. Clinging to office at any cost or political parlour games don't do anything to raise them tbh.

The notion that someone has to stand up and attempt to prove he has integrity sort of sums them all up.

[Rays Rock]

Durham plod guidance seems very clear that they do not issue FPNs retrospectively (see Cummings for example) so very possible Starmer knows he'll get told he is a naughty boy but no FPN = doesn't resign based on his statement today. Just the thing you'd expect a lawyer to do, but I think it will play badly with the public.

A misstep IMHO.

Aren't all penalties and sentences in relation to offences issued retrospectively, unless they now have some sort or Minority report department going on up there in Durham.
Also how does one police region have a different policy to another ? I don’t really care which one they go with, just be consistent. I suspect Starmer is nowhere near receiving a PCN anyhow, but if the allegations turn out to be anywhere near correct, Starmer and everyone associated at their meeting should be given a PCN for knowingly attending a food gathering in the middle of a meeting. The PCN issued to Johnson was for a birthday surprise to himself, so in that respect not a comparable set of circumstances.

[DaveWHU1964]

The notion that someone has to stand up and attempt to prove he has integrity sort of sums them all up.

All?

[OFT]

Durham plod guidance seems very clear that they do not issue FPNs retrospectively (see Cummings for example) so very possible Starmer knows he'll get told he is a naughty boy but no FPN = doesn't resign based on his statement today. Just the thing you'd expect a lawyer to do, but I think it will play badly with the public.

A misstep IMHO.

IMVHO:-
If a politician saying he will resign if fined for breaking the rules will play badly with the public then I'm afraid, the public will end up with the politicians it deserves.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

All?

Yeah. The fact they have to say it because I have no faith that any of them have it.

I'm an actions speak louder than words man. Just resign if guilty if that's what he thinks is right, all this flagging it up smacks of a man desperate to be seen as having integrity.

Now he may well have it (I have some doubts tbh) but the fact he has to shout about it to try and rise above what people think of politicians speaks volumes, again just my opinion.

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

Yeah. The fact they have to say it because I have no faith that any of them have it.

I'm an actions speak louder than words man. Just resign if guilty if that's what he thinks is right, all this flagging it up smacks of a man desperate to be seen as having integrity.

Now he may well have it (I have some doubts tbh) but the fact he has to shout about it to try and rise above what people think of politicians speaks volumes, again just my opinion.

So the alternative option is to have the right wing press, Conservatives and their attack dogs spend the next however many weeks slinging nonsense at him?

If the plan from the opposition is to paing everyone as corrupt liars then it makes sense to set out why you're different from them.

[DaveWHU1964]

Yeah. The fact they have to say it because I have no faith that any of them have it.

So they are all exactly the same? All of them. Every last one of them and there’s thousands of them. That’s a heck of a coincidence Sam.

[MB]

IMVHO:-
If a politician saying he will resign if fined for breaking the rules will play badly with the public then I'm afraid, the public will end up with the politicians it deserves.

If there were only two options then I think it would look like strong leadership.

It is the third option of found to have breached the rules, but no fine issued that I was referring to. Based on his statement he doesn't resign in that scenario and I think that will play badly with the public.

[DaveWHU1964]

If there were only two options then I think it would look like strong leadership.

It is the third option of found to have breached the rules, but no fine issued that I was referring to. Based on his statement he doesn't resign in that scenario and I think that will play badly with the public.

Fwiw, I tend to agree. Fine or not, if a politician of any party has broken the rules they should go.

Anyway, the Tories are coming to a realisation they’ve ****ed up royally.

Before Starmer’s announcement they and their press were pressurising him to say what he’d do if he got an FPN. Now they’re trying to spin him doing what they wanted him to do into him putting pressure on Durham police.

Reports now that they’ve just realised the end-game of where their shenanigans have taken them and Tory whips are telling their MPs to lay off on Starmer breaking the rules because it will make their chief **** look an even bigger **** if Starmer walks for one offence when their man won’t walk for numerous ones (the FPN he’s already had and those to follow). They are beyond inept.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

So they are all exactly the same? All of them. Every last one of them and there’s thousands of them. That’s a heck of a coincidence Sam.

They have to tell people they have integrity. That's not something you tell other people you have, it's something other people see that you have. Hopefully there are a few politicians with integrity left somewhere, there must be a few out of the limelight that don't have their snout in a trough or get their friends influence. Some that don't fiddle expenses or hire family members, that don't break the laws they oversee, that stick to their principles but accept others principles as just as valid. I'd say following Corbyn and Johnson purging their parties there are likely to be even less than they used to be.

I see today labour say they have hard evidence that no laws were broken. Did starmer know they had this before he made his pledge. Did they hold it back from the police until after he had made his pitch for integrity?

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

If the plan from the opposition is to paing everyone as corrupt liars then it makes sense to set out why you're different from them.

What's the point though? The only way he can show himself to be different is to resign and then it's a waste of time looking statesmanlike.