We actually pressed a lot in that game, and the folks over at Analytics United have the stats to back this up. Fornals made 18 pressures of the ball in the game on Sunday and 0 success rate. Coufal 10 pressures, 0 success rate. Bowen 16 pressures 2 success rate. I think it was more City being class on Sunday than us not 'turning up'.Cuenca 'ammer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:14 pm I pretty much agree with most of your stuff mate, but not this time. we didn't press all over, they just kept the ball looking for holes. they didn't have their shooting boots on and it wasn't because we limited them to 45 yard hopefuls.
several of our players were not at the races. it looked most of the time like a training match attack versus defence and we hardly got a sniff unless they they lost concentration and gave the ball away in their defensive third.
Bowen, Antonio (apart from the early header) Lanzini were anonymous. Soucek I thought wasn't even on the park at times. Fornals struggled to find anyone wearing the same shirt and it's not like we fought a complete rearguard backs to the wall defending game. not a defensive masterclass at all.
they did enough without extending themselves at all. they had THREE pre season games and the Charity Shield.
imvho that is.
David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
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- jabbaglob123
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
- Ironing Board
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Yup. Sometimes when you play a much better team they can make you look bad. There’s nothing wrong with applauding an excellent opponent.jabbaglob123 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:24 pm We actually pressed a lot in that game, and the folks over at Analytics United have the stats to back this up. Fornals made 18 pressures of the ball in the game on Sunday and 0 success rate. Coufal 10 pressures, 0 success rate. Bowen 16 pressures 2 success rate. I think it was more City being class on Sunday than us not 'turning up'.
- Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
well I suppose my eyes deceived me. what are our normal numbers for pressures I wonder.Ironing Board wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:28 pm Yup. Sometimes when you play a much better team they can make you look bad. There’s nothing wrong with applauding an excellent opponent.
as for "not applauding" the opponents really, merely pointing out that I don't think we were that great. the ease that they played the game, with our lack of working the keeper and that I honestly don't think we had to play great defensively they were quite content to keep themselves in front of us, they didn't (eye test only) try that many cutting edge passes and I don't think it was because we were so compact that we never gave them the room to do it.
just an opinion of course, and we all see things differently at times.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
The closest thing to City for me is a boa constrictor. They just gradually choke the life out of you. We were nowhere near our best, had personnel issues and they also made tactical tweaks that made it more difficult for us.Cuenca 'ammer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:56 am well I suppose my eyes deceived me. what are our normal numbers for pressures I wonder.
as for "not applauding" the opponents really, merely pointing out that I don't think we were that great. the ease that they played the game, with our lack of working the keeper and that I honestly don't think we had to play great defensively they were quite content to keep themselves in front of us, they didn't (eye test only) try that many cutting edge passes and I don't think it was because we were so compact that we never gave them the room to do it.
just an opinion of course, and we all see things differently at times.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Don't really agree, 'Oust - the defence did work hard and kept at it all game. We did threaten in a couple of short phases too, but mostly it was them coming at us, and it wasn't half-cock. We were undone by a keeper who was still cold off the bench, and then by a bit of brilliance by two top players. It took that to seal the game, because just before then we had one of our better spells, and if Dec could hit a cow's arse with a double bass we'd have (undeservedly) equalised.Cuenca 'ammer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:14 pm I pretty much agree with most of your stuff mate, but not this time. we didn't press all over, they just kept the ball looking for holes. they didn't have their shooting boots on and it wasn't because we limited them to 45 yard hopefuls.
several of our players were not at the races. it looked most of the time like a training match attack versus defence and we hardly got a sniff unless they they lost concentration and gave the ball away in their defensive third.
Bowen, Antonio (apart from the early header) Lanzini were anonymous. Soucek I thought wasn't even on the park at times. Fornals struggled to find anyone wearing the same shirt and it's not like we fought a complete rearguard backs to the wall defending game. not a defensive masterclass at all.
they did enough without extending themselves at all. they had THREE pre season games and the Charity Shield.
imvho that is.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
From the horses mouth.
Its a timely reminder that we are a club in transition (hopefully towards improved position). I tend to agree and support his view and plan, but of course many will not and definately not those who prefer a good conspiracy.
- thamesideiron
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Think we have to take into account the Nobes Factor,for a good few games...at any level of footie,Captains and "Big Characters" are
a miss when not around, changing room as well as pitch...the arm around shoulder, the jokey banter etc..the team will settle and adjust
but will take a while.
Dec Cress,Micky,particuarly gonna miss him.
Saying that, it's no excuse for professional footballers for lack lustre displays...which TBH thought Sunday was.
Forest will be a better test to see where we are.
With the Pressing thing...You have to press as a team,we seem to do it individually,pointless pressing one player if he has a get out
pass or two.
Us and City 2 different types of pressing one works the other doesn't.
Another TBH...if I look at Kurt now I wouldn't be signing him for my team,looks vulnerable,sluggish,maybe all the **** he's been getting,
plus the injury taking it's toll...lucky we have Dec and Tomas giving our our defence some great cover/help, he'll 100% improve tho,soon as we
have a settled CB pairing,when ever the F**k that's gonna be.
Big Supporter of Moysie.....but the 2 to 3 minute substitutions I just do not get...seriously P**sed Yarmo off ,could tell that.
Only point of not giving a player at least 15,is to break a game up or hopefully time waste when you're in front.
a miss when not around, changing room as well as pitch...the arm around shoulder, the jokey banter etc..the team will settle and adjust
but will take a while.
Dec Cress,Micky,particuarly gonna miss him.
Saying that, it's no excuse for professional footballers for lack lustre displays...which TBH thought Sunday was.
Forest will be a better test to see where we are.
With the Pressing thing...You have to press as a team,we seem to do it individually,pointless pressing one player if he has a get out
pass or two.
Us and City 2 different types of pressing one works the other doesn't.
Another TBH...if I look at Kurt now I wouldn't be signing him for my team,looks vulnerable,sluggish,maybe all the **** he's been getting,
plus the injury taking it's toll...lucky we have Dec and Tomas giving our our defence some great cover/help, he'll 100% improve tho,soon as we
have a settled CB pairing,when ever the F**k that's gonna be.
Big Supporter of Moysie.....but the 2 to 3 minute substitutions I just do not get...seriously P**sed Yarmo off ,could tell that.
Only point of not giving a player at least 15,is to break a game up or hopefully time waste when you're in front.
- Bond Holder 59+
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
…and the Pearce going factor as well. He would have been massively respected by the real pros in our squad.thamesideiron wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:54 pm Think we have to take into account the Nobes Factor,for a good few games...
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Little dicky-bird told me the complete opposite about Pearce...Bond Holder 59+ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:59 pm …and the Pearce going factor as well. He would have been massively respected by the real pros in our squad.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Everything he said in that interview was coherent and consistent with the approach we've seen him take. He clearly knows what he's doing.
Alternatively.........
So much blue colour in that video. He's clearly sending a message to the owners that he's pining for Everton. And did you see the bottle of wine? I have a hunch he's struggling to stay motivated. We should act fast and make an offer to Potter/Cooper/other flavour of the month. And we shouldn't mess around. We need a new manager in before the weekend.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
TBH, I didn't learn much that was new from that interview - it was Moyes reiterating the same things he's been saying for a lengthy period of time.
What it didn't address was the back-up plan when the main strategy wasn't working.
That, I think, is what's been a frustration to many people.
People get the idea that we want top 6 standard players and people understand that should we get some it pushes current starters to the bench , thus improving the squad. What it never answered is what you do when you can't secure any. Is changing nothing the right thing to do?
Fast forward a few months from when that happened and the club has missed out on both Europa League qualification and potential Europa League trophy when less of a hard line might have yielded a more positive outcome.
Hopefully, in the goodness of time it will look like a wise decision - but in the short term we've missed some obvious performance targets and goals, and that has put up an obstacle to securing some transfer targets and goals, whilst Moyes is lamenting 'staleness'.
What it didn't address was the back-up plan when the main strategy wasn't working.
That, I think, is what's been a frustration to many people.
People get the idea that we want top 6 standard players and people understand that should we get some it pushes current starters to the bench , thus improving the squad. What it never answered is what you do when you can't secure any. Is changing nothing the right thing to do?
Fast forward a few months from when that happened and the club has missed out on both Europa League qualification and potential Europa League trophy when less of a hard line might have yielded a more positive outcome.
Hopefully, in the goodness of time it will look like a wise decision - but in the short term we've missed some obvious performance targets and goals, and that has put up an obstacle to securing some transfer targets and goals, whilst Moyes is lamenting 'staleness'.
- ironilunga
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Blokes a legend. I personally wouldn’t believe anyone would think otherwise based on a dicky-bird - They can often on here turn out to be lame ducks
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Moyes is right in what he says he wants to do, but I’m not sure he or West Ham are capable of working that way.
We’ve done incredibly well over the last 2 seasons - but we can all see the staleness. The next 3 signings are vital - and given that we are getting further away from our first choice options with each passing day, we are going to end up either with Moyes 4th/5th options, a punt or nothing.
I personally don’t really see any vast improvements coming into the squad in the next 3 weeks. Maybe a few bodies but no more than that.
We’ve done incredibly well over the last 2 seasons - but we can all see the staleness. The next 3 signings are vital - and given that we are getting further away from our first choice options with each passing day, we are going to end up either with Moyes 4th/5th options, a punt or nothing.
I personally don’t really see any vast improvements coming into the squad in the next 3 weeks. Maybe a few bodies but no more than that.
- Bubbles Fortuna
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
You can be a legend and not a decent coach to be fair. Julian Dicks comes to mind.ironilunga wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:38 pm Blokes a legend. I personally wouldn’t believe anyone would think otherwise based on a dicky-bird - They can often on here turn out to be lame ducks
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Pretty much. Still, others seem to know best from seeing him on the telly box and hearing him on the radio.Bubbles Fortuna wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:23 pm You can be a legend and not a decent coach to be fair. Julian Dicks comes to mind.
- ironilunga
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
The suggestion, from an unnamed source, was that the players had no respect for Pearce. My own preference is to disregard this and instead go with the opinion of our Captain who has waxed lyrical about Pearce’s input as has our manager.Bubbles Fortuna wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:23 pm You can be a legend and not a decent coach to be fair.
No big deal though.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!
Our captain isn't going to come out and say he's not a particularly good coach, is he, because he's being professional in his media duties.ironilunga wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:43 pm The suggestion, from an unnamed source, was that the players had no respect for Pearce. My own preference is to disregard this and instead go with the opinion of our Captain who has waxed lyrical about Pearce’s input as has our manager.
No big deal though.
Our former captain said in public that the club isn't run like a circus anymore. We all know the truth on that one.