David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

['stone hammer]

Moyes & Benrahma split opinion on this forum like nothing else at the club...

Benrahma I'll give you, but anyone who isn't sold on Moyes needs their head checking.

Fans are free to criticise his subs, tactics, transfers etc. He's not perfect. But how anyone can question a 6th place finish, Europa league semi-final, potentially another 6th place finish ( ) and some great football is beyond me.

On top of that, he seems a passionate, humble bloke and apart from kicking that ball on last Thursday, has remained professional in the face of some true shithousery from other teams and baffling refereeing decisions.

['stone hammer]

As for winning a trophy, I just can't see him being able to do that.

I find that to be a very odd criticism, did you envisage us winning trophies under Pellegrini or Bilic? Any manager that comes in and wins us a trophy has performed a miracle, and Moyes went closer than anyone since 2006 this season.
And honestly, as close as we went against Liverpool in 06, we had a fairly easy run only having to play a 'big' team in the final.

[Wormley The 2nd]

Could we have?

Yep, it's so obvious that it's not even debate worthy.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

you have to go back quite a long way for us to win "trophies."

if Moyes gets us into Europe again next season, having gotten to the semi final of the Europa league this, and as far in the cups as we did, and we did have some bloody hard opposition during those runs, I'll be as happy as the proverbial porcine in excrement.

I don't have to like Moyes (I actually do) and I can rightly (imvho) critique him or praise him on a game by game basis, about anything match related but for ANYONE to say he hasn't done a bloody good job here, is beyond belief.

[DublinDave]

Benrahma I'll give you, but anyone who isn't sold on Moyes needs their head checking.

Fans are free to criticise his subs, tactics, transfers etc. He's not perfect. But how anyone can question a 6th place finish, Europa league semi-final, potentially another 6th place finish ( ) and some great football is beyond me.

On top of that, he seems a passionate, humble bloke and apart from kicking that ball on last Thursday, has remained professional in the face of some true shithousery from other teams and baffling refereeing decisions.

I think Moyes is doing a great job & hope he stays for years personally, Benrahma however does my head in & can excite me in equal measure but I think we can do better than him consistency wise going forward... (number 4 in my poll).
Was really just interested in the Venn diagram the poll would elicit, it seems many of Moyes's fearcest critics are also Benrahma's loyalist supporters...
Edit, & vice versa.

[Doc H Ball]

Are wingers ever consistent? The top few maybe but most blow hot and cold - it's the nature of the position.

He looked better for being more central but you could say the same about quite a few in the squad.

['stone hammer]

it seems many of Moyes's fearcest critics are also Benrahma's loyalist supporters...

Probably a correlation there, given that Moyes has shown he isn't Benrahma's biggest fan.

And which poll? I love polls, we don't see enough of them on KUMB.

[DublinDave]

Probably a correlation there, given that Moyes has shown he isn't Benrahma's biggest fan.

And which poll? I love polls, we don't see enough of them on KUMB.

I love polls too, hence my post on the previous page...
Was hoping a mod might find it interesting enough to do one...
I have the IT skills of a potato so would be incapable of even imagining how to do it...

[Bubbles Fortuna]

Yep, it's so obvious that it's not even debate worthy.

I saw absolutely nothing in Haller that would have helped us this season.

Our worst performances last year were with him starting.

It's Lingard we've missed.

[Ironing Board]

I think Moyes is doing a great job & hope he stays for years personally, Benrahma however does my head in & can excite me in equal measure but I think we can do better than him consistency wise going forward... (number 4 in my poll).
Was really just interested in the Venn diagram the poll would elicit, it seems many of Moyes's fearcest critics are also Benrahma's loyalist supporters...
Edit, & vice versa.

That’s how I see it too. Benny can be a good bench player for us or he needs to improve his game and get more consistency.

Bowen is also a winger and is very consistent.

[steveyrockstar]

If we finish once again 6-8th, then he has done a clearly better job than anyone since Redknapp. I hope he does.

As far as I'm aware, no West Ham manager in the history of the club has ever achieved two consecutive top 7 finishes in the top flight. Moyes is not only on the verge of achieving that, but he's also on the verge of achieving it while also reaching the semi-final of a major European competition, and with a squad that most people would describe as tiny.

As for winning a trophy, I just can't see him being able to do that. What I see is a manager who likes to build a robust team that is good at enduring the long tiring football season. Showing up ready to fight. With little to no surprise in his game plan or management.

You say he can't see him being able to win a trophy, but he's literally almost just done exactly that in the Europa this year. We're talking super fine margins here, and I think in most normal circumstances, I'd have fancied us against both E. Frankfurt and Rangers. Who knows what would have happened if Cresswell hadn't been sent off, which was largely an individual error and which effectively ended the contest. You could say he was also hamstrung by not adding to the squad in Jan, which would've enabled him to rotate key players more.

The league cup should be our best chance, yet I can't see Moyes ever being able to win it.
He has one semi-final with Everton and one with ManUtd in the League cup, and one final and semi-final with Everton.
He's got 16 attempts...

I actually think we have a better chance of winning the Europa League, and certainly the European Conference League, than the League Cup. In both those European tournaments, it'd be rare to face anyone of the quality of Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and (aside from them being poor this year), Man Utd. The last time a non-top 4 side won the League Cup was Swansea 9 years ago. Since then, Man City have won it 6 times, and the other winners were Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd. To win a domestic trophy these days, I think you've got to have an insane amount of luck in the draws. We certainly didn't get that this year.

[The Old Man of Storr]

Bowen is also a winger and is very consistent.

Bowen is not your traditional winger , as in a player who goes past full backs and crosses for the centre forward -

Neither is Benrahma -

The nearest we've got to a traditional winger is Antonio .

[Kermit]

As for winning a trophy, I just can't see him being able to do that. What I see is a manager who likes to build a robust team that is good at enduring the long tiring football season. Showing up ready to fight. With little to no surprise in his game plan or management.

But is the definition of a "good manager" defined only by one which has won a trophy ? Let's be brutally frank. In today's football there are only 2 trophies (in England) that are the big ones . The Premier League and the Champions League. The Europa League would come along in third place.
The F A Cup and Mickey Mouse cup ? Don't make me laugh.

And across Europe how many good managers have won their own domestic leagues or a major European trophy. A very small number. Doesn't make the rest of them useless, does it ?

Let's be frank mate. Put you and me in charge of Rangers or Celtic and one of us would win the league. But would that mean either of us would be on Man United's shortlist to replace Erik Ten Hag when he screws up ? No, of course it doesn't.

Moyes is probably a manager who is outside the elite level of managers who compete for the very top jobs. But West Ham are outside the elite group of clubs who offer jobs to the elite manager group. Which imo makes it a good fit.

[Ironing Board]

Bowen is not your traditional winger , as in a player who goes past full backs and crosses for the centre forward -

Neither is Benrahma -

The nearest we've got to a traditional winger is Antonio .

Yup. They are inverted wingers or old inside forwards.

[Clucking Bell]

To win a domestic trophy these days, I think you've got to have an insane amount of luck in the draws. We certainly didn't get that this year.

I'd go a bit further: you've pretty much got to hope that the top six put out weak teams in the early rounds and get knocked out by a lower league side. WIth the FA Cup, you've got the additional problem that, if you're still in Europe, it's your third priority after getting through the knockout rounds of the European competition and trying to at least maintain the league position.

The League Cup in particular this season was ****ing ridiculous: we'd have had to beat Man U, City, Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool to win it.

Quite honestly, Moyes is knocking it out of the park. Three respectable cup runs and an almost definite top seven (and possibly second consecutive top six) finish is ****ing outstanding.

[The Old Man of Storr]

Bang on , Clucking -

Those Clubs which are considered to be The Top Six currently occupy the top six positions though Tottenham had to throw in the towel in the inferior European competition they were competing in and Arsenal had to cheat their way there by lying about Covid so if you take away the ' Super League ' teams we are the best of the rest and that is down to Moyes and the way he's transformed these group of players - he's managing to consistently squeeze an extra 10 percent out of each and every one of them and for most of the season he's achieved it using just 14-15 regulars - the goal will be to have 22 players he can completely trust - slowly but surely he's getting there .

[Garry]

I think moyes as done great aswell . But I think this year's europa was our best chance to win that trophy. Frankfurt v rangers final. I bet you could have got great odds on that. Frankfurt to me were a average side. And I will still blame moyes and the 3 stooges for that defeat while they are still here. Because of our small squad and not getting extra players in the January window.

[westham,eggyandchips]

And honestly, as close as we went against Liverpool in 06, we had a fairly easy run only having to play a 'big' team in the final.

No we ****ing didnt!! :lol:

[szola]

I find that to be a very odd criticism, did you envisage us winning trophies under Pellegrini or Bilic?

I wasn't the one who have written about how he'll win a trophy.
I'm merely saying that I don't see him being capable of winning one, as opposed to those who think he might.

Both Pellegrini and Bilic are more in the cup winning mould, imo. The former just won in Spain w/Betis.

[szola]

You say he can't see him being able to win a trophy, but he's literally almost just done exactly that in the Europa this year. We're talking super fine margins here, and I think in most normal circumstances, I'd have fancied us against both E. Frankfurt and Rangers. Who knows what would have happened if Cresswell hadn't been sent off, which was largely an individual error and which effectively ended the contest. You could say he was also hamstrung by not adding to the squad in Jan, which would've enabled him to rotate key players more.

We got lucky in Sevilla, and played well enough to win at home. That was a fine line as well.
Cresswell's sending off, in both games, were more than individual errors. IMO.

I merely can't see Moyes ever winning a trophy with a team. I see that it is hard to accept when were over the moon by having played a European semi-final. Our form after we won against Liverpool have been average (12-6-9). It also coincided with our form taking a dip in Europe, losing to Spurs in the League cup, playing that game against Kidderminster before capitulating against Soton's reserves, not bringing in one player during January....

For me there are too many signs that make it difficult to see our team being able to perform well enough in the latter stages of any cup competition, with the approach we have. Last season we didn't have any distractions, with no Europe, going out of both cups early doors. And we had the advantage also of no supporters in the stands...