David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

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El brooko79
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by El brooko79 »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:06 pm Does fairly accurately point out how ridiculous the expectation that we easily beat a strong Villa side is.
If we played well and didn't win that's one thing.
But we again under performed and didn't utilise the squads ability. Some including myself think that's due to poor player selection, unimaginative tactics, poor formation and inability to react positively.

A problem this team and this manager has done for a long time.
Doesn't matter who.we play. The problem has been us not our opponents .
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Mr_incredible »

Up the Junction wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:05 pm I'm fairly certain there hasn't been one person on this thread who has said WHU should EXPECT to be below Forest at this stage of the campaign. I'm sure if that's not the case, you'll find them.
Yet BF clearly about 5 posts up states people are trying to make this season look worse than it is.....how much ****ing worse can people try and make it look than being 1 point from bottom. The only thing making it worse are the idiots that are still trying to maintain that captain Moyse is still plotting a sturdy course. I'm all for people trying to be positive where possible but it's gotten to the point where we could lose 5-0 nil and some on here would still find a stat somewhere that proved we played better than the opposition for a certain minute. The whole situation just has a very west ham feel to it....the club from top to bottom (fans included) shooting itself in the nuts and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Up the Junction »

Colours never run wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:20 pmNo they didn't
In which case I refer you to Bubbles' post, on the previous page of this thread.

I'm sure you can make your case adequately without needing to resort to fallacies and falsehoods. :thup:

Mr_incredible wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:26 pmThe only thing making it worse are the idiots...
You were doing well up until that point. Bar this quoted section, you made a good case.

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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Colours never run »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:06 pm Does fairly accurately point out how ridiculous the expectation that we easily beat a strong Villa side is.
Is Emery a decent manager now, or still over rated struggling to beat Stevenage in the Cup?
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Colours never run »

Up the Junction wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:26 pm In which case I refer you to Bubbles' post, on the previous page of this thread.

I'm sure you can make your case adequately without needing to resort to fallacies and falsehoods. :thup:
Yeah, it's still a transition season, got the memo. :thup:
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by jabbaglob123 »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:06 pm Does fairly accurately point out how ridiculous the expectation that we easily beat a strong Villa side is.

Much like our points against Newcastle and Chelsea weren't seen as good results.

This season has been pretty awful, but lots of people are trying to make it sound even worse.
Villa, Newcastle and Chelsea were all there for the taking.

Moyes **** himself and settled for draws instead. He seems terrified of losing and will do anything to avoid a loss rather than go for a win.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Metal Hammer »

Up the Junction wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:05 pm I'm fairly certain there hasn't been one person on this thread who has said WHU should EXPECT to be below Forest at this stage of the campaign. I'm sure if that's not the case, you'll find them.
He will wriggle and change tack as usual but as long as Tezza likes his post he will go home happy!
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Metal Hammer »

jabbaglob123 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:31 pm Villa, Newcastle and Chelsea were all there for the taking.

Moyes **** himself and settled for draws instead. He seems terrified of losing and will do anything to avoid a loss rather than go for a win.
Clearly Moyes is a victim of his own success as we now have Spurs levels of delusion infecting part of the fan base who expect us to turn up and roll over all and sundry :lol:
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Colours never run »

Metal Hammer wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:46 pm He will wriggle and change tack as usual but as long as Tezza likes his post he will go home happy!
It was clumsily worded, which I hold my hands up too. I didnt need to obviously point out our current piss poor position in the League, as we can all see that anyway. The point still remains however that people have argued that this is a transitional season so we should expect to be underperforming.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by goa127 »

jabbaglob123 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:31 pm Villa, Newcastle and Chelsea were all there for the taking.

Moyes **** himself and settled for draws instead. He seems terrified of losing and will do anything to avoid a loss rather than go for a win.
I watched all 3 of those games (Newcastle on TV) and I never at any stage thought that. Chelsea and Newcastle after 5 minutes I thought we were going to get battered. In both games we recovered to control a good amount of the game, but a draw was a decent result both times. Villa was an entertaining game where we definitely had the edge particularly early in the second half. Villa remained dangerous on the break and had chances to win it. There's plenty to complain about this season but 'there for the taking' is not a true reflection
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by JohnnyLyall »

All three of those games we could have won, had we tried harder rather than trying harder not to lose.

None of them were easy to win but all three a possibility, one win in one and a loss in the other 2 gets the same points.

Newcastle did look like they would batter us, but up to the second half subs we looked the more likely, after we were battered again and hung on.

Chelsea played us off the park as we stood off them. They scored and then we attacked and pressed a bit and they looked vulnerable, we scored. Then we were outplayed again as we went passive

Villa we started on the front foot but they scored first. We were the better team.. But last 20 they were as our subs didn't help as they looked like they wanted to win the game more.

So games are there to be won with some courage from Moyes, yes they could be lost too.

But we need to be brave, so I get it when I read there for the taking, but I don't think anyone means we should roll anyone over just show more courage in going for the win.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

jabbaglob123 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:31 pm Villa, Newcastle and Chelsea were all there for the taking.

Moyes **** himself and settled for draws instead. He seems terrified of losing and will do anything to avoid a loss rather than go for a win.
And this is exactly what I meant by people trying to make things sound worse than they already are.

Anyone we fail to beat was 'there for the taking', and team we do beat in Europe would 'struggle in league 2', any teams we beat in the league are 'complete rubbish'.

And if you think a point against Villa isn't the end of the world you apparently are an idiot who would be happy losing 5-0. The blind hatred for Moyes from some posters is colouring their perception of everything, including the apparently 'mickey mouse' European Trophy we have a chance of winning.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by 1895Hammer »

Like it or not we are in late March in the bottom 3, so can’t see how anyone can argue we are not playing at relegation scrap level this season. Mitigating circumstances with some horrendous injury problems, I still don’t think we’ve started a game with our best eleven fully fit, that and the integration of so many new players excuses not being in the pack chasing a European qualification via the PL, but having spent £180m ish on a team that finished 6th & 7th in the previous years it’s equally unacceptable to be sitting 18th in the table. We’ve still had the services of a set of new full internationals most games, while the squad is in transition and suffering injuries a drop to mid table might be expected, a collapse to a relegation fight absolutely not. 10 players on International duty this week, with others such as Zouma,Bowen and Benrahma not selected this time around.
10 wins in Europe is a lovely stat, but being realistic most of our opposition to date wouldn’t survive a year in the Championship, and we are lucky the remaining quarter finalists probably only see Fiorentina and Nice as PL level clubs. The European games don’t mask overall under performance.
With 12 league games left and a Europa qf against a Belgian side we’d be happy to include in the remaining Pl fixtures it’s long overdue time the whole club steps up and starts performing somewhere near it’s expected level. Moyes, his coaches, the players and our beloved owners need to come together and deliver to potential, the summer is a time for review and change, but do that from a strong position of PL membership ideally with Europa League qualification, the recriminations from a Championship berth will have severe impact for pretty much all of them. Right now I can’t see how anyone in the club or us as fans can claim to have performed as expected, and it’s wasted energy arguing the case, we are 18th, the table doesn’t lie. We have potentially 17 games to play, form to date may say otherwise but the club is perfectly capable of picking up 7 or 8 wins from those games, ensuring PL survival and giving us a night to remember in Prague. Stop the talking, the ridiculous combination of boasting, whining and excuses, just get on and deliver.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by MB »

That's it. I think sometimes people forget how bad this club is at sustaining any degree of success. 1997-2000 is the last time we had three top half finishes back to back. It is tough to do and at some point there will be a blip. There always is.

The problem is how far we've fallen this time both in terms of position and quality of play. That is mostly on the manager, but let's be clear the next one appointed will likely follow the same cycle of some degree of success followed by a blip. The best we can hope for under the current ownership is to make more of the good times and reduce the impact of the bad. I don't see anyone building anything under this lot.

I guess that is why some have so much patience with Moyes.

Doesn't make this season acceptable, but it was always in the mix to happen. That is just the club we support.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Metal Hammer wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:50 pm Clearly Moyes is a victim of his own success as we now have Spurs levels of delusion infecting part of the fan base who expect us to turn up and roll over all and sundry :lol:
Think most just expect more than 6 in 26 mate, seems fair.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Tottenham were the ones recently who were 'there for the taking'.

Now that one was disgraceful, you can't convince me otherwise.

I think we could've and probably should've beat Newcastle and Villa seeing those games play out. We were lucky not to get battered by Chelsea after that pathetic start.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by funky chicken »

MB wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:49 am That's it. I think sometimes people forget how bad this club is at sustaining any degree of success. 1997-2000 is the last time we had three top half finishes back to back. It is tough to do and at some point there will be a blip. There always is.

The problem is how far we've fallen this time both in terms of position and quality of play. That is mostly on the manager, but let's be clear the next one appointed will likely follow the same cycle of some degree of success followed by a blip. The best we can hope for under the current ownership is to make more of the good times and reduce the impact of the bad. I don't see anyone building anything under this lot.

I guess that is why some have so much patience with Moyes.

Doesn't make this season acceptable, but it was always in the mix to happen. That is just the club we support.
Very good points made. And to be fair even Moyes himself has said the same, with regards to your first paragraph. Albeit, perhaps a bit too blunt for the supporters to want to hear. But I could absolutely see where he was coming from and with the pressure he was under at the time of the interview.

Nothing’s really changed since he took the job in terms of accepting he is arguably one of the best manager we can get to work alongside the current owner, when you consider what he has to deal with.

Should we have a change of ownership and a new philosophy of how we’d like to run the club, then questions over the manager come into play. But to be fair we’re no different to must clubs, as different managers fit into different clubs. Would a hands on manager, who wants more control, work at a club like Brighton, for example. Would a Thomas Frank succeed at a club that won’t have the same recruitment team in place as he had at Brentford?
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by MB »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:04 am Tottenham were the ones recently who were 'there for the taking'.

Now that one was disgraceful, you can't convince me otherwise.

I think we could've and probably should've beat Newcastle and Villa seeing those games play out. We were lucky not to get battered by Chelsea after that pathetic start.
Could have been two or three down against Newcastle early on as well (and about half a dozen other times this season…)

Villa is more of an if, buts and maybes match IMO. They had chances too. But at the very least Moyes didn’t really go for it when there was a chance to which is a valid complaint IMO.

Spurs was nothing short of a disgrace and anyone disagreeing with that is on the wind up. I’d add in Wolves away as well where we just let the match run and never even seemed to try to get any kind of control over it.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by hammerman11 »

Moyes will need to go for wins now we are bottom 3, starting with Southampton which we must win

A draw is no longer good enough

Let's hope scamacca and Cornet lead the revival
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Aztec Hammer »

funky chicken wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 am Very good points made. And to be fair even Moyes himself has said the same, with regards to your first paragraph. Albeit, perhaps a bit too blunt for the supporters to want to hear. But I could absolutely see where he was coming from and with the pressure he was under at the time of the interview.

Nothing’s really changed since he took the job in terms of accepting he is arguably one of the best manager we can get to work alongside the current owner, when you consider what he has to deal with.

Should we have a change of ownership and a new philosophy of how we’d like to run the club, then questions over the manager come into play. But to be fair we’re no different to must clubs, as different managers fit into different clubs. Would a hands on manager, who wants more control, work at a club like Brighton, for example. Would a Thomas Frank succeed at a club that won’t have the same recruitment team in place as he had at Brentford?
I think what has changed is that he has been backed massively, both financially and emotionally, since his return to the club. Only Pellegrini comes close.

I detest those in charge of the club, but outside of the obvious infrastructure issues, I have to admit I struggle to see why they are shouldering the blame to the point where it could be considered that nobody will ever succeed here.

The money has been put in recently, we had good enough players that with good management were able to finish 6th, 7th and reach a Euro semi. We spent loads in summer, the third most I believe. Sullivan and Brady somehow have managed to hardly even speak publicly now too.

It was and is absolutely possible for a manager to use the resources available at West Ham in terms of playing squad and money to build and coach a good team that achieves a sound level of success.

Moyes has underperformed massively this season and I really don't see why Sullivan or 'West Ham United' should shoulder the blame for that. They weren't really getting the credit when we did well recently.

Keep us up and win the Conference though and who cares, it will somehow actually turn into an amazing season; more so for the way that the trophy would be tangible evidence of what the entirety of the three years has meant to us.
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