David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

[El brooko79]

If only someone would invent a format by which to judge those... like awarding points and stuff for being better than your opponent.

Funny.
I think we got more points than our performances deserved its that simple.
If performances don't improve next season we will be in another relegation battle.

Nothing to do with style or how we play.

I said it was right to go into survival mode.
But if you don't think performances need to rise above what we have seen in 2023 I'm glad you are satisfied.

[Bubbles Fortuna]

I thought we played better in Big Sams last season than this one so I am comfortable that I haven’t been too harsh. The reason I am concerned is that Moyes had the best player I have seen in 20 years at CM

We got 13 points from the last 19 games under Allardyce.

Scoring 10 and conceding 23.

Level on points with Newcastle and QPR at the bottom of the table.

[pezza20]

Fact - Moyes has been our most successful manager since Lyall's golden years
Fact - we did not spend £200m on players
Fact - look at threads at the start of the season, most of us were practical and knew this season would be tough bringing in 9 new players, most of which were new to the premiership and its pace.
Fact - we are in our first European final for over 45 years

Now Its true most wanted him gone both pre world cup and also through February but without doubt Sullivan for once made the right decision, and we can't say that he has done that much over his tenure ...

I think Moyes has done more than enough to deserve another crack at improving the side next season, and maybe a win or loss in the ECL final may be the catalyst for things going either way.

[Up the Junction]

But if you don't think performances need to rise above what we have seen in 2023 I'm glad you are satisfied.

In the last 18 months, during which the club has apparently performed dreadfully, I've watched West Ham play competitive football in Spain, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands. Others in Cyprus, Romania, Denmark and France, making memories that will last a lifetime.

Having waited for such an opportunity for many years, of course I'm over the bloody moon. It's a terrible shame that you feel unable to revel in these moments and enjoy them. Because as a West Ham supporter, they don't get much better than this.

[Albie Beck]

Funny.
I think we got more points than our performances deserved its that simple.
If performances don't improve next season we will be in another relegation battle.

Nothing to do with style or how we play.

I said it was right to go into survival mode.
But if you don't think performances need to rise above what we have seen in 2023 I'm glad you are satisfied.

What do you mean by "performances"? The table says we are 14th. In the end comfortable but unspectacular and our performances - not always pretty (but then nor were Liverpool's for example) - got us there. That's the points we got. How can you divorce performances from outcome unless you are referring to style of play?

[El brooko79]

In the last 18 months, during which the club has apparently performed dreadfully, I've watched West Ham play competitive football in Spain, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands. Making memories that will last a lifetime. Having waited for such an opportunity since the 1970s, of course I'm over the bloody moon.

It's a terrible shame that you feel unable to revel in these moments and enjoy them. Because as a West Ham supporter, they don't get much better than this.

You are twisting it and changing the perspective of my argument.
If you want to debate my point about our performance levels, which I raised in respect of BF talking about the last 20 games and Eddie Howe in happy to have that debate.

But please don't twist this into saying "shame people can't take enjoyment". I'm not sure what you having a lovely time in Holland has anything to do with me saying our league standard need to improve and we got more than I think our levels deserved.

It's not black and white. Pro Moyes Anti Moyes. **** season. Great season.
We just did enough. He deserves a chance to improve it.
But yes I take a different view when people throw out a 20 game league table and high 5 how good we have been.

[CarltonColesLeftFoot]

But yes I take a different view when people throw out a 20 game league table and high 5 how good we have been.

Yes these half season league tables are annoying & terrible.

Your 18 month, i.e. season and a half league table is awesome though.

[El brooko79]

What do you mean by "performances"? The table says we are 14th. In the end comfortable but unspectacular and our performances - not always pretty (but then nor were Liverpool's for example) - got us there. That's the points we got. How can you divorce performances from outcome unless you are referring to style of play?

Nothing to do with style of play at all.
Genuinely no issue with style and I think the team with possesion often has less chances.
I won't go over it all again but it is on the previous page when I replied to UtJ before

[Up the Junction]

You are twisting it and changing the perspective of my argument.

Your core argument is that WHU have played unwatchable football for the last "18 months". Right? I, and others, have explained why that's palpably nonsensical - in our view. It doesn't need any "twisting"!

If you want to debate my point about our performance levels, which I raised in respect of BF talking about the last 20 games and Eddie Howe in happy to have that debate.

I have responded already and refer you to Carlton's post above.

But please don't twist this into saying "shame people can't take enjoyment".

If you're enjoying being a West Ham fan right now '79 - what the f*** are you continually griping for?

It's not black and white.

Of course it is when you make hackneyed statements like (and I paraphrase) the last 18 months of football has been unwatchable. Irrespective of whatever caveats you opt to add upon being challenged.

[The Old Mile End]

I see a team coming together at the right time. I see Paqueta now looking settled, and fitter than at any time since he came. I see Aguerd bringing a bit of class into the back four. I see Fornals working harder and being involved all over the pitch. I see Bowen both creating and looking for goal scoring opportunities. I see Antonio bullying defenders and being there in the box when it matters. I see young Mubama coming through the ranks with pace to burn up front. I see him running the flanks with the spirit of youth inside him. I see Rice singing x more years and then signing for them. I see Kehrer adjusting to the English game week by week and being versatile anywhere at the back. I see some decent squad players pushing for those spots too. I see the potential of Downes, prefer Emerson on the left and feel good about the progress of our youth team. I give the manager credit for his part in this along with all his coaching team.

I see all this – and I see we are in a Euro final next week.

[El brooko79]

Your core argument is that WHU have played unwatchable football for the last "18 months". I, and others, have explained why that's palpably nonsensical - in our view. It doesn't need any "twisting"!


I have responded already and refer you to Carlton's post above.


If you're enjoying being a West Ham fan right now '79 - what the **** are you continually griping for?


Of course it is when you make hackneyed statements like (and I paraphrase) the last 18 months of football has been unwatchable. Irrespective of whatever caveats you opt to add upon being challenged.

You haven't paraphrased very well as I never said unwatchable. Nor have a been continually griping so what the "f***" are you talking about?

I said our league performances have not been good enough for 18 months (and i admit I meant 1.5 seasons).

I said we dug in for 2023 and ground out results but our league performances need to improve. I also said the current manager is the one to do that. That was more core argument actually.

I have been very clear on what I consider the difference performances and results.

Making out people are "constantly griping" is just trying to shout over a debate. Don't like my opinion just ignore it mate .

[stu1]

If Moyes wasn't WHU's manager, us supporters would never have enjoyed back-to-back European campaigns both of which saw us reach the last four.

I know which I'd choose, given a choice of that or finish half-a-dozen places higher in the Premier League.

Not really relevant to the point I was making……but I’m sure you already know that.

[PF.]

I've been steadfast in my support for Moyesiah apart from when I was walking out of the OS after that Newcastle game. However, a good sleep put me back on the right path.

I read somewhere that there's an opinion we've played worse than the number of points of we've got? Cobblers.

Considering the amount of new players we added to the squad, a tough start with two dodgy VAR decisions (Forest and Chelsea) and a ridiculous amount of injuries to our defenders, we've done well to bounce back post Christmas and christ on a bike; we're only in a European final.

Let me say that again. West Ham United are in a European final.

Genuinely cannot see how there any detractors at the moment.

[Marky]

Why do you think we have the best set of CM's at the club for over 20 years?

Could it be a result of the on-field success we've achieved under Moyes?

I didnt say that and dont think it. I said best CM in 20 years and Englands best player in Dec

[stu1]

Strange as transfermarket show different and after manually checking Wolves results they got 27 points from their last 19 games which would have us 11th.

I'd suggest the following:

1. How many points did we get the last time we had a Europe-free season?
2. How did our form look last season , when spilt between first half (group stages) and second half (knockout)?
3. How does our away form look across the last three seasons?
4. At what moments in the season have the better away results come?

1. Our points total was significantly better but there are many factors to consider and I think laying most of blame at the fact we played in Europe over looks many of the reasons we were poor this season.

2. Our form began to tail off in December 21 but it wasn’t until March 22 we played the knock out rounds, whilst our premier league form was also fantastic during the group stages in 21.

Although I do accept our first choice XI were ran into the ground last season, but this season our squad was far bigger and the quality of opposition in Europe noticeably lower.

3. I haven’t checked but I’d imagine in line with our overall league form.

4. This season, our away wins have all come during the period when we had Europe to focus on. Early on against Villa then late on against Fulham and Bournemouth.

I'd hazard a guess most better results coincide with a break in the european schedule, whilst we're clearly fielding weakened teams away from home on a regular basis at the business end of a european tournament.

See some of my point above but I don’t believe this to be the case, our best results this season have been whilst at the business end of the ECL.

I wouldn't be surprised to see all of Villa, Brighton, Newcastle experience a negative league impact from playing in Europe next season. They'll play on the buzz for a while, but they will get hit as the season goes along.

I’m sure they will but they will all be playing a higher standard of team than we have this season. Newcastle in particular, you can’t compare the demands of the champions league to the conference league.

To be clear winning the conference would be a huge achievement and if we built a statue of Moyes in response then fair play. However, if we are honest most the teams we played (particularly early on) would finish rock bottom of the premier league and most likely struggle in the championship.

That’s a large reason why I believe being in Europe was beneficial to our premier league campaign, it gave the players confidence, let Moyes see new signings, provided our strikers with opportunities to score whilst firing blanks in the prem and meant the fans had some positivity to hold on to.

For me our success in Europe (as great as winning a trophy would be) it is papering over the issues in the league, many of which aren’t at all related to Europe. The tactics and recruitment/use of new players was woeful during the first half of the season. No doubt it improved in the second half but only to an ok level, we still weren’t good, other than maybe the Man U game and 1 or 2 others.

If we want to build on (hopefully) winning a European trophy then a lot needs to change next season, especially as we will likely be losing our best and most consistent player.

[Marky]

Up until Christmas with Carroll out injured and playing Sakho with pace up front I'd agree. However, we fell away terribly in the second half of that season and scored just 6 goals in our last 12 games. The football was terrible to watch.

I think pre World Cup we were as bad as latter end with Big Sam. At the very least its close (performance wise)

I don’t love firing managers in fairness. The one issue that I could defend Moyes with is is I don’t think he signs the players (Ings/Cornet)

If Moyes stays then fine but he has to analyse and cure why we are so poor. We cant have a Leicester. they got to the semi’s last year beating stronger teams (PSV) and sleepwalked to relegation

[westlondonhammer]

I didnt say that and dont think it. I said best CM in 20 years and Englands best player in Dec

You dont think Rice still being here has anything to do with our on pitch success?

[Romford_Iron]

I think the team with possesion often has less chances.

Thinking something doesn’t make it true. I could take a really recent example and ask many clear cut chances did AZ have against us over 180 minutes, despite having the majority of possession?

It’s what you do with the possession, not how much of it that you have, that counts.

[El brooko79]

Thinking something doesn’t make it true. I could take a really recent example and ask many clear cut chances did AZ have against us over 180 minutes, despite having the majority of possession?

It’s what you do with the possession, not how much of it that you have, that counts.

You have just agreed with me.

[Romfordboy]

I don’t think there is any argument about being a Moyes out supporter but i am ambivalent whether he goes now or he is given the last season of his contract.

I don’t see him changing his way of playing football (see the improvement in second half of season by playing the usual cresswell/Antonio team and nullify opposition/counter attacking style)

The obv problem is that he is always going to be 3 games from sack like this season unless he has an obsolete stormer from the blocks which is highly unlikely with rice gone.