TfL Bailout - sign of things to come?

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Big George
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TfL Bailout - sign of things to come?

Post by Big George »

This is just crappy political point scoring. Who is this going benefit?

Terms and conditions for TfL's £1.6bn bailout package
» service levels increased "as soon as possible"
» reintroduction of fares on buses
» reinstatement of the congestion charge (7 days a week, 7am-10pm)
» temporary suspension of Freedom Pass/60+ card concessions during peak hours
» temporary suspension of free travel for under 18s

» fare increase next year on all modes by RPI plus 1%
» promotion of active travel and traffic management
» review of TfL's future financial position and structure
» 2 government representatives to join TfL board, finance committee and programmes & investment committee
Last edited by Big George on Fri May 15, 2020 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by YGNB »

I see the Daily Mail have gone mental blaming Khan for the congestion charge rising to £15.00
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

Most people won't end up being aware of those details.

Quite smart politicking by the Tories. Gives Sean Bailey the ammo to say Khan & co. ****ed up the finances of TFL and then made YOU pay for it with fare increases.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by fmgod »

Wasn't this before the coronavirus though, who froze all the fare prices this year or last, who gave the freedom pass out, made under 18's travel free?

Khan is useless regardless of political viewpoint, he seems more interest in me to being a Twitter celeb, turning up to every event under the sun, creating bizzare roles like the night czar

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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by pbenjy »

YGNB wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 1:22 pm I see the Daily Mail have gone mental blaming Khan for the congestion charge rising to £15.00
According to this £15 Congestion Charge is the tip of the iceberg of what Khan is proposing:-

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-release ... reinstated
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by Junco Partner »

The Government forcing up fares is economically illiterate at this time. Takes disposable income out of the economy which is absolutely the last thing that we need going into a recession.

Effectively a tax increase on Londoners (poor ones at that) to pay for the coronavirus lockdown.

The conditions seem a bit onerous too. Did EasyJet did get any conditions on their bung?

Did any of the one million businesses now furloughing staff have conditions attached?

And yet TfL gets them in spades :?
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by YGNB »

pbenjy wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 2:11 pm According to this £15 Congestion Charge is the tip of the iceberg of what Khan is proposing:-

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-release ... reinstated
I don't see an issue with any of this? Car free streets are becoming more and more common in large cities, London is quite far behind in that respect
Last edited by YGNB on Fri May 15, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

fmgod wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 1:54 pm Wasn't this before the coronavirus though, who froze all the fare prices this year or last, who gave the freedom pass out, made under 18's travel free?

Khan is useless regardless of political viewpoint, he seems more interest in me to being a Twitter celeb, turning up to every event under the sun, creating bizzare roles like the night czar
This situation is costing TFL about £150m a week. You can't discount it just because it gives a convenient stick to bash Khan with.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by fmgod »

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 2:23 pm This situation is costing TFL about £150m a week. You can't discount it just because it gives a convenient stick to bash Khan with.
They've been in serious money trouble for years, this last few weeks hasn't really changed much, it has made it worse and accelerated the process but it was heading this way anyway, was a matter of time.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by Junco Partner »

When our Government orders/advises the population not to travel and with TfL being funded almost entirely by fares and advertising you’re going to have to allow for a knock to revenue

With 90% of people not travelling but TfL having a statutory obligation to supply transport services for those who had to travel to get to work - in hospitals, care homes and the like - it was simply bound to hit some troubles.

These government conditions seem to have come quickly, are heavy handed, counterproductive and a little political.

Wonder if they’ll be applied similarly to big business bailouts when they come?
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by bubbles1966 »

Junco Partner wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 2:13 pm The Government forcing up fares is economically illiterate at this time. Takes disposable income out of the economy which is absolutely the last thing that we need going into a recession.

Effectively a tax increase on Londoners (poor ones at that) to pay for the coronavirus lockdown.

The conditions seem a bit onerous too. Did EasyJet did get any conditions on their bung?

Did any of the one million businesses now furloughing staff have conditions attached?

And yet TfL gets them in spades :?
Londoners have already paid (with their lives in above average numbers if they drive buses and cabs) because of the disease riddled Tfl system.

Politics doesn't alter the fact that London buses, tubes and minicabs are all pretty vile experiences and should not be re-opened as was.

They should let this stuff go to the wall, make Khan do without his train set and concentrate on getting people to do their work and live their lives more locally.

Commuting is a waste of time and money, and is a generally god awful experience.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by EvilC »

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 1:50 pm Most people won't end up being aware of those details.

Quite smart politicking by the Tories. Gives Sean Bailey the ammo to say Khan & co. ****ed up the finances of TFL and then made YOU pay for it with fare increases.
Prior to this they were actually facing a bit of a double shafting, one from reduced central government funding and one from the fare freeze. On top of that, journeys were down, which was suspected to be due to the Uber and working from home impact. Then COVID happened.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by Big George »

bubbles1966 wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 2:42 pm Londoners have already paid (with their lives in above average numbers if they drive buses and cabs) because of the disease riddled Tfl system.

Politics doesn't alter the fact that London buses, tubes and minicabs are all pretty vile experiences and should not be re-opened as was.

They should let this stuff go to the wall, make Khan do without his train set and concentrate on getting people to do their work and live their lives more locally.

Commuting is a waste of time and money, and is a generally god awful experience.
Communalism at play there.

Many people rely on LU/Buses. Charging kids is something else in terms of being lousy though, shocking behaviour from Shapps.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

YGNB wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 2:17 pm I don't see an issue with any of this? Care free streets are becoming more and more common in large cities, London is quite far behind in that respect
Don't most cities have cheaper transport services?
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by YGNB »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 3:44 pm Don't most cities have cheaper transport services?
Indeed - but TFL relies on fares and advertising to run services. Others operate at a loss and are subsidized by central / local government.
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Re: TfL Bailout - sign of things to come?

Post by sendô »

The first step in London Transport being fully privatised.
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Re: TfL Bailout - sign of things to come?

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Isn't this how govt works on anything these days? Tax people to adjust behaviour.
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Re: TfL Bailout

Post by bubbles1966 »

Big George wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 3:43 pm Communalism at play there.

Many people rely on LU/Buses. Charging kids is something else in terms of being lousy though, shocking behaviour from Shapps.
At a guess, 95% of the population of this country rarely, if ever, use TfL.

Large chunks of it seem to be there for the benefit of tourists.
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Re: TfL Bailout - sign of things to come?

Post by mumbles87 »

I must say coming on here and reading these replies is very refreshing. Rather than idiots on twitter flat out blaming khan and labour instead of actually reading that it's the Tories who are imposing this on the mayor.

I'll start by saying khan is not without his faults. The fare freeze wasn't a good idea at all. Especially just after we lost our government grant.

Speaking of the grant . Who agreed to that? Mayor of London Boris Johnson. So that's 700 million a year out of tfl budget.. (the only major city in the world without central funded transport btw) that 700 million a year stopped in 2018. So call that 3 grants missing. 2.1 billion missing from the budget. Yet we offered 1.6 billion with conditions? Boris has used it to hammer labour when it came from his poor management of tfl.

Speaking of Boris poor management .. 30 million from tfl to the bridge that never got built.. and night tube (that costs 50 million to run a year) so that was 2015 it was brought in.. that's 250 million cost to date... For something that was a vanity project.

Tfl were very close to activating section 114 which would mean we can only run the minimum service as set by the greater London authority. I only found out the other day what it actually is....

Licence taxis and private hire
Run the Woolwich ferry
Maintaince on some roads
School buses for kids who live 2 miles from school

That's it. We don't have to run the buses or the tube... The gov were always going to bail tfl out and they knew khan was set for a second term as mayor .. a way to get someone sitting on the tfl board ..

All sicknesses now must be reported to the gov, all finances being reviewed by the Tory party. Under a labour mayor.. his hands truly tide.

They will make cuts and he will get the brunt.

The Tories are using covid to do what they want. Covid caused this financial crisis. We been running at a 600 million loss since lockdown and used our money in the bank to fund it. Well not all as we have to keep 1.2 billion in the bank at any one time . So we were about to go to into that and would use that to do the little bits I said above.

"Londoners aren't treated anywhere near as well as the fat cat privateers running our railways who have been bailed out at our taxpayers’ expense but are still allowed to make a profit. "

Quote I read today. Couldn't be more true.

Interesting read on tfl finances if anyone has a spare 20 mins

https://www.londonreconnections.com/202 ... /#comments

Thank you once again for restoring my faith in people.
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Re: TfL Bailout - sign of things to come?

Post by bubbles1966 »

Have I read that right?

TfL was being given taxpayer handouts?

To run a public transport service in London?
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