Exactly so, signing a potentially good player is very welcome BUT we saw insights on Twitter about what Brentford thought about the tactics last night especially the attempt to remove the compulsion to buy at the last minute. So yes West Ham won a battle which Sully can get off on in front of his mirror no doubt, but increasingly we are losing the war in which we are rapidly expending credibility and allies who want to work with us or play for us. If that longer term consideration is deemed by some irrelevant then sadly it's a reflection in microcosm of all that's wrong with our club.NWhammer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:04 pm I’m delighted we signed him but the drama of it all somehow managed to take the shine off it.
I really do hope that was Moyes picking a perfect moment to stick it to the two bob Roy Trotter today. I’ve had enough of this proud clubs reputation being tarnished by the little scrotum.
Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
Moderator: Gnome
- e-20
- Posts: 2835
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:01 pm
- Location: London ish
- Has liked: 14 likes
- Total likes: 4 likes
- Contact:
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
- LeonRivers
- Posts: 10448
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm
- Location: Way out of your league
- Has liked: 1035 likes
- Total likes: 394 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
The change of strategy for #2 was purely down to not being able to get the player(s) that Moyes wanted. It's still not been done and will be addressed in a future window. I'd wager money that Dawson was Moyes' backup plan if we couldn't sign a top target .WestHamIFC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:15 pm Looks to me that, apart from clearing the deadwood, it was decided we needed 2 things at the start of the window: 1. Pay the Haller installment, 2. A top class CB.
Selling Grady dealt with #1. We had about £20-30m for #2.
Then I think was a change of strategy for #2. Maybe helped by playing 3 @ the Back resulting in 2 clean sheets? And Burnley playing hardball over the Tarkowski price?
So Sulli decided Dawson would do until Jan, and the opportunity to get Benrahma was too good to miss.
-
- Posts: 4687
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 6:13 pm
- Has liked: 10 likes
- Total likes: 297 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
Net is a very important thing to look at, you just have to know what it is telling you, it is one of several things to look at.bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:43 pm The money went in 15 or so years ago when they were buying Carrick, Defoe, Berbatov, Keane etc.
"Net" player trading can be a very disingenuous statistic.
If I buy a player for £1, and don't sell anybody - and another club sells £500m and spends 500m I'm the bigger net investor, but the one spending £500m gets more choice and quality than I get for my pound.
Yes, Spurs have done well to grow the value of their players, and yes, our owners are a bit pony ( We've lost Parker, Ba, Payet and Arnautovic for £50m in total) - but the huge swathes of money Lewis sank into Spurs whilst we were in a mess following the redevelopment of the Boleyn and the Roeder relegation is where they truly gained the upper hand, imo.
For a fair amount of the two-three decades before that there wasn't much at all between Spurs and West Ham - both teams playing in 35,000 seat stadiums, with the odd bit of cup glory and the odd flirtation near the top. I'm old enough to remember Spurs getting relegated.
So a high net negative (like we have) tells you that you are moving money into transfers from other revenue streams (or injections from the owners).
What you then have to look at is...... Gross Transfer spend and Gross transfer sales. This tells you how much you spent on players and how much you sold them for.
Clubs fall into 4 categories:
1. High net, High gross Sales and spend- These are the clubs that are injecting cash to buy, and buying big time players, they are selling high, but spending even more on top... this is the two Manchester teams and Chelsea for example. Fans often love it, owners who do it are taking a risk
2. High Net, Low or Moderate Gross- These are the clubs that are putting money into transfers because they don't sell for good value. This is us. Owners hate it, and fans eventually hate it because the only way you are getting this is if most of your players are aging or losing value.
3. Low/Moderate net, High gross- These are clubs that buy big ticket players, but offset it by selling well, this is any owner's dream, Liverpool fits here.
4. Low/Moderate net, Low/Moderate gross- Clubs that sell to buy, who keep to budgets and rarely reach for big tickets, Burnley type.
Ideally fans want 1 or 3, Owners want 3 or 4 (unless they don't care about losing money).
Nobody is going to be happy long term if they are in box 2.
And we... of course have been in box two for a long time.
- ChikinRun
- Posts: 1129
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:01 pm
- Location: Where town meets country
- Total likes: 6 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
The cocks can mix it up....Rodon for a snip at 11 mill, a player that would have done us nicely.
Our pair of cocks like razzle dazzle though....
- alantaylorsleftfoot
- Posts: 1037
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:49 am
- Has liked: 177 likes
- Total likes: 61 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
For those of you asking 'who the hell is Ben Davies', Preston v Cardiff is now live on Sky Sports Football
- Bryant4114
- Posts: 3388
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 10:36 pm
- Has liked: 1 like
- Total likes: 1 like
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
This transfer window was another disaster from the perspective of the board & club's reputation.
- They defaulted on a transfer payment to a top European club
- Their players openly criticised their dealings
- They sold our best young prospect because "we had 8 wingers", only to replace him with another winger for 2.5x the transfer fee and much higher wages
- They changed the terms on a deal on the deadline yet again, causing it to nearly fall through and AGAIN embarrassing the club with unprofessionalism
- They missed out on every single CB target, settling for a newly relegated, uncapped 30 year old on loan
- Multiple players rejected moves to West Ham
I think Coufal could be a canny signing and I truly hope Benrahma turns out to be our version of Mahrez / Payet 2.0, but what another absolute ****ing shambles."Benrahma is younger and although he is more expensive, Moyes came round to the idea of signing him after discussions with members of West Ham’s board."
- EastVillageHammer
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 10:31 am
- Has liked: 3215 likes
- Total likes: 2596 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
Bryant4114 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:54 pm This transfer window was another disaster from the perspective of the board & club's reputation.
- They defaulted on a transfer payment to a top European club
- Their players openly criticised their dealings
- They sold our best young prospect because "we had 8 wingers", only to replace him with another winger for 2.5x the transfer fee and much higher wages
- They changed the terms on a deal on the deadline yet again, causing it to nearly fall through and AGAIN embarrassing the club with unprofessionalism
- They missed out on every single CB target, settling for a newly relegated, uncapped 30 year old on loan
And to top it off, there's this gem that Sullivan was the one who convinced Moyes to take Benrahma
- Multiple players rejected moves to West Ham
I think Coufal could be a canny signing and I truly hope Benrahma turns out to be our version of Mahrez / Payet 2.0, but what another absolute ****ing shambles.
- Het-Field
- Posts: 10225
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:54 pm
- Location: Its great to be Irish, but its a miracle to be a Dub
- Has liked: 25 likes
- Total likes: 312 likes
- Contact:
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
This window has been exceptionally odd. We finished 16th last term, we really stayed up by the skin of our teeth, and yet, it terms of expenditure, we are far closer to spending what we did in the summer's of 2002, 2008 and 2009, one season in which we ended up relegated, another where we had enough in the tank to remain competitive, and another where most other years, we would have been relegated. Even if we were to afford the club the high line of the Soucek fee, the Coufal fee (on the whole) the low line of the Diangana fee, and assumed we were still paying Anderson's wages, we are talking a single figure sum (in millions). Ajeti, Hugill, Cullen all generated around £10 Million - £12 Million, with the low line on Diangana bringing that to £24 Million. This would almost be break even. But moving various figures around, and as quoted, it looks like a profit was made. Good business acumen perhaps, but not good in terms of developing a squad.
I actually think that the ins and outs, are generally in line with what we need. I think like most fans, I have baulked at the Diangana sale, generally objected to the Cullen sale, as unnecessary, but generally been indifferent to the rest. Roberto, Zabaleta, Sanchez. Their time was up. Zaba will always be well regarded at the club, as an excellent pro who spent his final three years giving as much as he could to the club. Roberto was a disaster, and Sanchez hardly much better. Also, Sanchez had a generally inconsequential time at the club. Much like Jack Wilshere. Drawing a line under his tenure is almost a positive move, as it no longer relies on his potential fitness. Ajeti, and Hugill. Well, Hugill should have been sold a long time ago, and Ajeti never fit. You could hope for the best from both, but it was better to release their equity and move forward. Anderson, well, that is just disappointing. Good player on his day, but will now have a chance in other league with a major club. I'd love him to recover his form and return. Xande Silva, well, we've not seen much of him so where his future lies is anybody's guess.
The point is, the outs are not as hugely consequential as the ins. The difficulty with the "outs" was last summer, when we sold the fringe players for the money that could be raised for them, and released others. Perez, Hernandez, Obiang, Fernandes, could all have made a difference. Adrian would undoubtedly have had a better time than Roberto. It was the 2019 car boot sale that was the problem with the outs, because those outs were made, contingent on the 2020 "outs" either staying fit or doing better. The latter were the squad members, and now they are gone.
This is what is frustrating about the "ins". On paper, we've actually transacted where we have needed to. We've finally put money behind a right-back and a centre midfield (albeit signed before the window opened). We've even brought in a new Centre Back. But the extent to which we've spent is not enough, and our squad isn't deep enough. We know Soucek, and he is good. Coufel has looked like he can adapt. Craig Dawson is not glamorous, but he is experienced. Benhrama was one of the Championship's most exciting players and if he can adapt to the PL, it could be a really great deal. But, we still have out serviceable £10 Million left-back pairing that have been with us for years, a number of players from the end of the Sam and the beginning of the Slav era, and then a group of players who are ageing into the Zabaleta/Sanchez bracket. Simply put, we aren't deep enough, and if form or injury impacts the current team which is doing well, we could struggle.
Like I said, I don't lament more than a handful of our departures, but coupled with last summer's window, I think there is a major risk being taken, and that recent results may prove a bit of a fig leaf.
I actually think that the ins and outs, are generally in line with what we need. I think like most fans, I have baulked at the Diangana sale, generally objected to the Cullen sale, as unnecessary, but generally been indifferent to the rest. Roberto, Zabaleta, Sanchez. Their time was up. Zaba will always be well regarded at the club, as an excellent pro who spent his final three years giving as much as he could to the club. Roberto was a disaster, and Sanchez hardly much better. Also, Sanchez had a generally inconsequential time at the club. Much like Jack Wilshere. Drawing a line under his tenure is almost a positive move, as it no longer relies on his potential fitness. Ajeti, and Hugill. Well, Hugill should have been sold a long time ago, and Ajeti never fit. You could hope for the best from both, but it was better to release their equity and move forward. Anderson, well, that is just disappointing. Good player on his day, but will now have a chance in other league with a major club. I'd love him to recover his form and return. Xande Silva, well, we've not seen much of him so where his future lies is anybody's guess.
The point is, the outs are not as hugely consequential as the ins. The difficulty with the "outs" was last summer, when we sold the fringe players for the money that could be raised for them, and released others. Perez, Hernandez, Obiang, Fernandes, could all have made a difference. Adrian would undoubtedly have had a better time than Roberto. It was the 2019 car boot sale that was the problem with the outs, because those outs were made, contingent on the 2020 "outs" either staying fit or doing better. The latter were the squad members, and now they are gone.
This is what is frustrating about the "ins". On paper, we've actually transacted where we have needed to. We've finally put money behind a right-back and a centre midfield (albeit signed before the window opened). We've even brought in a new Centre Back. But the extent to which we've spent is not enough, and our squad isn't deep enough. We know Soucek, and he is good. Coufel has looked like he can adapt. Craig Dawson is not glamorous, but he is experienced. Benhrama was one of the Championship's most exciting players and if he can adapt to the PL, it could be a really great deal. But, we still have out serviceable £10 Million left-back pairing that have been with us for years, a number of players from the end of the Sam and the beginning of the Slav era, and then a group of players who are ageing into the Zabaleta/Sanchez bracket. Simply put, we aren't deep enough, and if form or injury impacts the current team which is doing well, we could struggle.
Like I said, I don't lament more than a handful of our departures, but coupled with last summer's window, I think there is a major risk being taken, and that recent results may prove a bit of a fig leaf.
- Aceface
- Posts: 16441
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
- Location: Blighty
- Has liked: 373 likes
- Total likes: 1471 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
I'd say this comment is holding up well. Barely a week goes by without Pablo shanking a near-certain goal into the stands.Aceface wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:16 pm The aspect of Fornals' play that probably offers a reason for optimism for his supporters and possibly a reason to get rid for those who don't fancy him is the conversion of big chances in front of goal.
If he can improve on his snap shots in good positions he'll really be among the goals, because the positions he takes up in the centre of goal are often excellent. I think it's hard to argue he didn't put enough of those 'easier to score than not' chances away this season.
But, equally, if you watch the game yesterday, you'll notice how many times he's right there in the centre of the box ready if the defender misjudges. He's got the potential to have a Ramsay/Lampard-esque season in terms of goal numbers if things click at some point in future.
-
- Posts: 1495
- Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:24 am
- Has liked: 14 likes
- Total likes: 64 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
Antonio maybe out for our next game or two, we shouid have bought king, like for like ( give it kings not as quick )
- MB
- Cricket's Darren Anderton
- Posts: 25267
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
- Has liked: 5673 likes
- Total likes: 3091 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
We also scored three goals after Antonio had gone off... we’ll be fine.Billy Bonds boots wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:32 am Antonio maybe out for our next game or two, we shouid have bought king, like for like ( give it kings not as quick )
The how is more important than the who in our current formation.
-
- Posts: 9590
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:03 pm
- Has liked: 383 likes
- Total likes: 1414 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
I think Bowen's going to move into the Antonio spot if he's out, with Fornals and Benrahma playing as the attackers behind.Billy Bonds boots wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:32 am Antonio maybe out for our next game or two, we shouid have bought king, like for like ( give it kings not as quick )
- Ironing Board
- Posts: 22190
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:11 am
- Has liked: 2083 likes
- Total likes: 1803 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
I’ll be interested to see how he does. If he can stay fit they will have got a real bargain. Even if he only manages 20 games they will have gotten value for money.
- Het-Field
- Posts: 10225
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:54 pm
- Location: Its great to be Irish, but its a miracle to be a Dub
- Has liked: 25 likes
- Total likes: 312 likes
- Contact:
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
I was interested to see Clyne on the bench for Palace at the weekend. For somebody who has not been heavily involved at top level football, that was a very good turnaround to reach fitness, which suggests he is really going to work hard to make it back. I suspect Welbeck will do much the same, as Watford got a reasonable return from him last year.Ironing Board wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:08 pm I’ll be interested to see how he does. If he can stay fit they will have got a real bargain. Even if he only manages 20 games they will have gotten value for money.
- Aceface
- Posts: 16441
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
- Location: Blighty
- Has liked: 373 likes
- Total likes: 1471 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
Welbeck was decidedly mediocre even when he used to be younger and fitter.Ironing Board wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:08 pm I’ll be interested to see how he does. If he can stay fit they will have got a real bargain. Even if he only manages 20 games they will have gotten value for money.
Never scored more than 9 league goals in a season. Even your man Anderson has managed that.
-
- Posts: 4687
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 6:13 pm
- Has liked: 10 likes
- Total likes: 297 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
I'd say he was very good in the 11-12 season and the 13-14 season, never reached those heights again, but 18 goals and 5 assists across 3500 or so minutes is excellent.
- thejackhammer
- Posts: 9189
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 11:49 pm
- Total likes: 2 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
It will certainly be interesting to see someone else in that Antonio Position.
Antonio is so good at holding the ball on the half way line and either bursting clear or earning a freekick, so many of our goals have come from a clearance that he has turned into a chance from the middle of the pitch.
Haller and Yarmolenko both have to be higher up the pitch and I'm not sure Bowen is strong enough.
Antonio is so good at holding the ball on the half way line and either bursting clear or earning a freekick, so many of our goals have come from a clearance that he has turned into a chance from the middle of the pitch.
Haller and Yarmolenko both have to be higher up the pitch and I'm not sure Bowen is strong enough.
- EastVillageHammer
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 10:31 am
- Has liked: 3215 likes
- Total likes: 2596 likes
Re: Summer 2020 Transfer Thread
I really like your tenacity with the Welbeck belief. He’s been bobbins for years now.Ironing Board wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:08 pm I’ll be interested to see how he does. If he can stay fit they will have got a real bargain. Even if he only manages 20 games they will have gotten value for money.
If he plays more than 15 games and gets more than 3 goals, I will eat my hat.