Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by sendô »

Image

A baseball cap, makeup and pink nail varnish.

I don't know about you lot but I'm convinced. Let her come back.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by JerseyHammer »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:41 am
A baseball cap, makeup and pink nail varnish.
And some makeup to cover up the more tanned area around her eyes due to constant covering of face with a burka even though this is apparently how she dresses now
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Big George »

She's our problem, we should deal with her through the criminal justice system.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by jastons »

If Shamina comes home then maybe football will as well?
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by last.caress »

I mean I get what Javid was saying after the GMB Begum interview (I'm paraphrasing, but basically: "Any half-decent person who'd seen the evidence I've seen relating to Begum would reach the same conclusions I did whilst I was Home Secretary and revoke her UK citizenship since she's clearly still a threat to the UK; and the Supreme Court, who HAVE seen the same evidence, have agreed with me"). I get that. But if the evidence gathered is that compelling, then Shirley she can be successfully tried and convicted in a court?
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by jastons »

Is Shamina the only person in (modern) history to have their UK citizenship revoked? That didn't have citizenship here by birth.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by EvilC »

jastons wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:48 am Is Shamina the only person in (modern) history to have their UK citizenship revoked? That didn't have citizenship here by birth.
No.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... mima-begum
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Puff Daddy »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:41 am Image

A baseball cap, makeup and pink nail varnish.

I don't know about you lot but I'm convinced. Let her come back.

That place where she now is, looks little more than a tented, dusty, hellhole. How has she managed to get her hands on a vest shirt, baseball cap and above all, nail varnish ?
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Tenbury »

If Sajid Javid has 'the true evidence' why she shouldn't be allowed back, and yet by her own admission she wants to return, why the hell don't they just bring her back and stick her on trial?
There’s another aspect to this that most people ignore; Many of these women have young kids, by condemning them to be brought up in the camps we are creating the potential for the next generation of terrorists..... and guess who they're going to target.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by delbert »

Tenbury wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:41 pm If Sajid Javid has 'the true evidence' why she shouldn't be allowed back, and yet by her own admission she wants to return, why the hell don't they just bring her back and stick her on trial?
There’s another aspect to this that most people ignore; Many of these women have young kids, by condemning them to be brought up in the camps we are creating the potential for the next generation of terrorists..... and guess who they're going to target.
Because she, her lawyer and her supporters (and potential handlers) know she'll get a paltry slap on the wrist and let on her way.

How about we stick her on trial over there? We (and other nations with an interest) help the Syrians give these people the trial they deserve, if convicted they get to keep her.......
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by last.caress »

delbert wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:18 pm Because she, her lawyer and her supporters (and potential handlers) know she'll get a paltry slap on the wrist and let on her way.
That's inconsistent though with Javid's rationale for having revoked her citizenship.

I get what you're saying entirely, and I think that's most peoples' concern (and Begum's hope) with a scenario where she comes here for trial. Apparently conviction rates are quite low in these instances bacause it's a bit of a bugger to secure much evidence from back at the old Caliphate, so Begum gets reinstated as a Brit, comes here, gets nicked, charged and put on a trial that collapses through lack of evidence, and she walks. I get absolutely why that might be incredibly appealing to her and galling to the general public. And that's before we even begin to contemplate the possibility that, at some unspecified point in the future, she goes on to commit a lethal terrorist atrocity here in the UK (or at least be involved in one), just as most feared she would.

But again: Javid implied heavily that his decision to revoke her citizenship was based on evidence he'd seen (and which the supreme court also saw in unanimously upholding his decision) which would cause any person to have done exactly the same in his shoes. Again: Fair enough.

But you can't have it both ways. There can't be a fear that she'll beat the rap, and an insistence that the evidence against her is overwhelming. If Javid and the high court have seen evidence of her crimes and of her continuing threat to the United Kingdom, why can't we bring her back, present that evidence to her and make her answer for what she's supposed to have done? Sling her in the most solitary and secure slammer in the UK for the rest of forever, but also discharge our responsibilities as regards our citizen instead of lamely trying to palm her off on Bangladesh, and possibly even secure ourselves an asset if she's genuine about giving up ISIS intelligence (if she really has any of relevance). That needn't mean granting her any freedom.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Shabu »

Only slightly related but did Samantha Lewthwaite's citizenship get revoked?

Not that she wants to come back anyway :lol:

Is she still alive?
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Shabu wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:18 am Only slightly related but did Samantha Lewthwaite's citizenship get revoked?

Not that she wants to come back anyway :lol:

Is she still alive?
Does she have another nation she is eligible to claim citizenship of? Isnt that the reason they can do it with begum, that doing it doesn't necessarily leave her stateless. If effect it does obviously.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Puff Daddy »

Ooh and I forgot to mention a Love Island make over
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by delbert »

last.caress wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:56 pm That's inconsistent though with Javid's rationale for having revoked her citizenship.

I get what you're saying entirely, and I think that's most peoples' concern (and Begum's hope) with a scenario where she comes here for trial. Apparently conviction rates are quite low in these instances bacause it's a bit of a bugger to secure much evidence from back at the old Caliphate, so Begum gets reinstated as a Brit, comes here, gets nicked, charged and put on a trial that collapses through lack of evidence, and she walks. I get absolutely why that might be incredibly appealing to her and galling to the general public. And that's before we even begin to contemplate the possibility that, at some unspecified point in the future, she goes on to commit a lethal terrorist atrocity here in the UK (or at least be involved in one), just as most feared she would.

But again: Javid implied heavily that his decision to revoke her citizenship was based on evidence he'd seen (and which the supreme court also saw in unanimously upholding his decision) which would cause any person to have done exactly the same in his shoes. Again: Fair enough.

But you can't have it both ways. There can't be a fear that she'll beat the rap, and an insistence that the evidence against her is overwhelming. If Javid and the high court have seen evidence of her crimes and of her continuing threat to the United Kingdom, why can't we bring her back, present that evidence to her and make her answer for what she's supposed to have done? Sling her in the most solitary and secure slammer in the UK for the rest of forever, but also discharge our responsibilities as regards our citizen instead of lamely trying to palm her off on Bangladesh, and possibly even secure ourselves an asset if she's genuine about giving up ISIS intelligence (if she really has any of relevance). That needn't mean granting her any freedom.
You may have answered your own question there mate, why take the risk if we don't have to? And as it currently stands, we don't have to.
Big George wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:27 am She's our problem, we should deal with her through the criminal justice system.
We don't do that when British citizens commit crimes in other countries, get caught smuggling drugs in Thailand for example and you get what's coming to you.
Why are some people so insistent she needs to come back here?
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

If she does come back to stand trial her lawyers will argue that due to all the press and TV coverage, she couldn't get a fair trial. They'll say she's already been found guilty in the eyes of the public before any evidence has been offered. I'd say that argument has a fair chance of success too, as it did when a newspaper printed something during the trial of those accused of murdering Stephen Lawrence and the judge ended the case there and then.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by sendô »

delbert wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:32 am You may have answered your own question there mate, why take the risk if we don't have to? And as it currently stands, we don't have to.
I suppose to flip that on it's head, there's still the risk that she disappears to Bangladesh and the authorities completely lose track of her. Just because she isn't in the country doesn't mean there's no threat.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

sendô wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:49 pm I suppose to flip that on it's head, there's still the risk that she disappears to Bangladesh and the authorities completely lose track of her. Just because she isn't in the country doesn't mean there's no threat.
good luck to here wearing those clothes and that make up.
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Re: Shamima Begum can't return to UK (updated)

Post by Samba »

sendô wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:49 pmI suppose to flip that on it's head, there's still the risk that she disappears to Bangladesh and the authorities completely lose track of her.
Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:17 pmgood luck to her wearing those clothes and that make up.
She's not dressed & made up for Bangladesh..
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