The kids are all right

[The Straw]

Can I ask how you know that to be a bona fide fact ? And if they don't why are the rules not applied and sanctions imposed ?

I know there were some issues regarding signing players from oversease a few years back but the bulk of the Chelsea players who have made their first team or who are out on loan are English.

I coach and have scouted at that level.

[Kermit]

I coach and have scouted at that level.

I coach at a local kids football club and have also done some scouting. Never been offered a "bung", which I assume is where you're coming from. I just wondered what rules Chelsea have broken and if they have why no action has been taken.

[Bubbles Fortuna]

I coach at a local kids football club and have also done some scouting. Never been offered a "bung", which I assume is where you're coming from. I just wondered what rules Chelsea have broken and if they have why no action has been taken.

They had a transfer ban a couple of years ago because of it.

Signing players too young, paying them by 'gifting' houses and the like.

Quina, who ended up with us, was one of the problem players, signed from his academy at too young an age.

[Kermit]

They had a transfer ban a couple of years ago because of it.

Signing players too young, paying them by 'gifting' houses and the like.

Quina, who ended up with us, was one of the problem players, signed from his academy at too young an age.

I do remember that. But wasn't that only concerned with players they had brought in from overseas? Can't be denied they have an impressive array of home grown talent on their books. Just like we used to back in the day.

[Kludgehammer]

Surprised to see that Jayden Fevrier has been released - I thought he was supposed to be really highly regarded at the club

[norse]

"Mipo Odubeko scored his first goal for the Republic of Ireland U21s on just his second outing, firing home the team’s second in a 3-0 win against Bosnia & Herzegovina."


whufc.com

[Kermit]

"Mipo Odubeko scored his first goal for the Republic of Ireland U21s on just his second outing, firing home the team’s second in a 3-0 win against Bosnia & Herzegovina."


whufc.com

Republic of Ireland eh. Surely that should be Mipo O'Dubeko shouldn't it ?

Don't worry, I'll close the door on my way out.

[honkytonk]

Surprised to see that Jayden Fevrier has been released - I thought he was supposed to be really highly regarded at the club

Has had some injury troubles

[hammerman11]

Going to be decision timeon a lot of youngsters this season.

Alese Coventry Ashby longello Chesters perkins okoflex will hopefully get added to first team squad where moyes and his team can look at them over the next 6 months. January will be decision time for a lot of the above .
No idea who will make it if any !

[Bond Holder 59]

Going to be decision timeon a lot of youngsters this season.

Alese Coventry Ashby longello Chesters perkins okoflex will hopefully get added to first team squad where moyes and his team can look at them over the next 6 months. January will be decision time for a lot of the above .
No idea who will make it if any !

Agreed H11, I’m a consistent Coventry fan, but if he’s not a regular squad player by Christmas he ain’t going to get a chance at West Ham. Best therefore if he finds another club. I can see MK trying to keep him. They like him there, and remember how they helped Ali?

Some of the others on your list have more time, but the decision to stick or twist is approaching, as it does every season.
⚒

[hammerman11]

I hope a few are good enough fir us snd stay. Nothing like one of your own.
My choice would be Ashby making it.

[Bubbles Fortuna]

Going to be decision timeon a lot of youngsters this season.

Alese Coventry Ashby longello Chesters perkins okoflex will hopefully get added to first team squad where moyes and his team can look at them over the next 6 months. January will be decision time for a lot of the above .
No idea who will make it if any !

Dewsbury-Hall was out on loan at 23.
Max Kilman made his first career league appearance at 22, a further 3 at 23, and only broke through at 24.
Lingard was on loan at Derby at 22, began playing for Man Utd at 23.

Just three off the top of my head.

All of those players you listed have time, especially Chesters, Perkins, Ashby and Alese.

[Kermit]

Dewsbury-Hall was out on loan at 23.
Max Kilman made his first career league appearance at 22, a further 3 at 23, and only broke through at 24.
Lingard was on loan at Derby at 22, began playing for Man Utd at 23.

Just three off the top of my head.

All of those players you listed have time, especially Chesters, Perkins, Ashby and Alese.

Players develop at different ages don't they ? You've given some good examples of relatively late developers. The other side of the coin is that Gavi, Pedri and Ansu Fati have all won several caps for Spain whilst still in their teens. Our own Declan Rice was another whose talent was identified early enabling him to break through. I think it does bear the question whether early exposure to first team action is a help to the development of young players. And there is also the matter of their motivation. I do sometimes worry it must be something of a downer for the lads on the bench seeing the regular procession of Fredericks's and Masuaku's off the bench, Which, if the rumours are to be believed,nakes it easy to understand that young Perkins seems to be interested in a move to Leeds, a club who seem to have no worries about throwing promising kids into their first team.

I think it was Ron Greenwood, many years ago, who once said you're never really sure how a young player is going to perform until you've seen him in action at first team level.

[only1post]

I guess if they were not in the 6 released last week, then the coming pre season will be crucial for a few.

When their contracts expire will obviously determine, if we can leave the decisions longer, and explore possible loans out.

Trott out of contract this year, Baptiste, Odubeko and Coventry next year and the recent Leeds/Villa Perkins rumours would seem to be close to the top of Moyes to do list.

[Ethanadict]

I have mixed feelings about this. I was crying out for Alese to play when we were devoid of left backs when Cresswell was unavailable and we had other defensive injuries.

But I also accept Moyes knows the players best and I’m sure we’ve all seen players thrown on only to look out of their depth. That can be very damaging for a young player’s future.

I feel very proud that we have Ben Johnson who has grown into a first team player, and congratulations to him for his recent England performance. The lad has tremendous ability and potential.

But even he is not immune to criticism on here. He deserves time to make mistakes and learn his trade, but such is the pressure of the Premier League and the desire for immediate success, that people are so quick to point out his deficiencies when a result hasn’t gone the way we want it to.

If we want our youth to come through (I do) we need everyone to accept that they need time, that they will make mistakes, and we need to cut them a bit of slack when things don’t always go right. You can see why Moyes is protective, and why so many need the loan periods to get a taste of what’s to come.

[Bubbles Fortuna]

Players develop at different ages don't they ? You've given some good examples of relatively late developers. The other side of the coin is that Gavi, Pedri and Ansu Fati have all won several caps for Spain whilst still in their teens. Our own Declan Rice was another whose talent was identified early enabling him to break through. I think it does bear the question whether early exposure to first team action is a help to the development of young players. And there is also the matter of their motivation. I do sometimes worry it must be something of a downer for the lads on the bench seeing the regular procession of Fredericks's and Masuaku's off the bench, Which, if the rumours are to be believed,nakes it easy to understand that young Perkins seems to be interested in a move to Leeds, a club who seem to have no worries about throwing promising kids into their first team.

I think it was Ron Greenwood, many years ago, who once said you're never really sure how a young player is going to perform until you've seen him in action at first team level.

Fredericks and Masuaku are experienced professionals, it's no real surprise they're getting time off the bench before completely inexperienced defenders, especially when we're chasing a top 6 spot.

Imagine if Ashby came on and lost Cavani for Rashford's winner, he'd have been ripped apart on social media and by 'fans'. A 29 year old Fredericks can bare that brunt easier.

It's difficult to blood youth defenders that's for sure.

Players do develop differently, you get your Rooneys and Owens, bursting through as teenagers.

You have your Vardys and Antonios too.

The point I was making is that saying 'well, Alese is 21 now, he'll never make it so better release him.' is short sighted when plenty of players have broken through later on in their careers.

Leeds youngsters played in an injury crisis, and the teenagers who played against us were immediately dropped as soon as players were fit. They played a game or two each and that was that, something that our players got in the Europa League.

[Kermit]

Fredericks and Masuaku are experienced professionals, it's no real surprise they're getting time off the bench before completely inexperienced defenders, especially when we're chasing a top 6 spot.

Imagine if Ashby came on and lost Cavani for Rashford's winner, he'd have been ripped apart on social media and by 'fans'. A 29 year old Fredericks can bare that brunt easier.

It's difficult to blood youth defenders that's for sure.

Players do develop differently, you get your Rooneys and Owens, bursting through as teenagers.

You have your Vardys and Antonios too.

The point I was making is that saying 'well, Alese is 21 now, he'll never make it so better release him.' is short sighted when plenty of players have broken through later on in their careers.

Leeds youngsters played in an injury crisis, and the teenagers who played against us were immediately dropped as soon as players were fit. They played a game or two each and that was that, something that our players got in the Europa League.

I recognise the experience Fredericks and Masuaku have. But how does one gain experience at the appropriate level without being exposed to the pressures at that level.? And , ironically given your example, experience didn't prevent Fredericks from costing us a point and gifting United an extra two, with his laughable attempt to head clear a straightforward punt forward in our game at Old Trafford.

There have been occasions when games have been comfortably won, or for that matter comfortably lost, when, at least imo, it would have seemed appropriate to introduce one of the kids. When they were used as a collective in the Zagreb tie I felt they acquitted themselves well against a side of upper championship, lower premier league level, although I do of course concede the game was free of the usual pressures.

I take your point about fans and social media, however I feel generally fans are more tolerant of a young player's mistakes than they are towards a seasoned professional. Of course there are idiots who will rush to the keyboard to berate all and sundry when a result goes wrong but I believe they are in the minority and, in any case, social media abuse is one of the pitfalls any player must now overcome if they use that particular medium themselves.

[Rocketron]

Players develop at different ages don't they ? You've given some good examples of relatively late developers. The other side of the coin is that Gavi, Pedri and Ansu Fati have all won several caps for Spain whilst still in their teens. Our own Declan Rice was another whose talent was identified early enabling him to break through. I think it does bear the question whether early exposure to first team action is a help to the development of young players. And there is also the matter of their motivation. I do sometimes worry it must be something of a downer for the lads on the bench seeing the regular procession of Fredericks's and Masuaku's off the bench, Which, if the rumours are to be believed,nakes it easy to understand that young Perkins seems to be interested in a move to Leeds, a club who seem to have no worries about throwing promising kids into their first team.

I think it was Ron Greenwood, many years ago, who once said you're never really sure how a young player is going to perform until you've seen him in action at first team level.

I may well off the mark, but don't the top Spanish teams play their under 23s in the lower leagues, whereby they get real game time?

[Kermit]

I may well off the mark, but don't the top Spanish teams play their under 23s in the lower leagues, whereby they get real game time?

Yes. The Spanish clubs play "B" teams as part of their league system. The same thing happens in Germany, and probably other countries as well.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

I may well off the mark, but don't the top Spanish teams play their under 23s in the lower leagues, whereby they get real game time?

however while there's truth to that...

Gavi, Ansu Fati, Pedri have been playing with the first team for a while. in fact Ansu Fati I think, played 2 seasons ago and then had an ACL injury which kept him out of the line up for about 10 months or so.

Pedri played with the Barca team, the National team AND went to the Olympics with the u-23 team and ended playing something stupid like 70 plus games. season before last maybe ? anyway they managed his game time better this past season.


there's some really seriously good talent in that young Barca team. BaIde is one to watch too. think there's also a kid called Nico, and a lad who plays up front..Ez Abde (sounds like someone from Mayans MC) and of course there's Araujo and Mingueza

3 or 4 of those have 1B release clauses or will have when they sign new contracts.