I don't necessarily think it is racism, and it is perfectly understandable as people in Ukraine are more 'identifiable' to most people here - plus of course the media coverage and narrative of Putin the bogeyman and Russian flexing their powerRichieRiv wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:58 pm It's not hard to work out why there is more sympathy directed at a European country like Ukraine that has gone from 70+ years of peace to a war zone, whereas the Middle East has been a war zone since beyond the Ottoman Empire.
It's easy to conflate the two and blame racism, mainly due to reducing a problem to a false simplicity by ignoring complicating factors
The BBC
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Re: The BBC
- delbert
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Re: The BBC
I can't recall huge amounts of either the media or politicians being hostile to Syrian refugees.........Collison Theory wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:54 pm While racism undoubtedly has an effect (I'll admit personally seeing white people who look like me in war conditions grabs my attention more than seeing brown people), I think the biggest difference is the messaging. While huge amounts of media and politicians were hostile to the Syrians, very few have been hostile to Ukrainians. This is doubly effective, as very few people like to think that they're influenced by the media, and even fewer like to think they are influenced by politicians.
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Re: The BBC
But isn't that racism? Not as in hating people of a certain race, but in feeling differently towards people due to their ethnicity?Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:12 pm I don't necessarily think it is racism, and it is perfectly understandable as people in Ukraine are more 'identifiable' to most people here - plus of course the media coverage and narrative of Putin the bogeyman and Russian flexing their power
Instead of being in denial of these instincts, we should be conscious of them. I think unconscious bias training is generally a pretty unpopular idea, but I believe in it, because it accepts our tribal instincts and the negative side to them. Whereas most peoples reaction to any suggestion they have any sort of underlying prejudice is very defensive- "how dare you I'm not a bigot, those people are evil, I'm a good person, I believe in equality".
I agree that it's understandable that we see Ukrainians as more "identifiable", as I said, I felt the same thing. The important thing is to not let that feeling turn into supporting racist policy decisions, but to step back and think rationally about the situation.
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Re: The BBC
The idea that immigration is a problem seems to be a fairly recent one, and is mostly centred in Europe. To be honest, I think it's a bit of a myth based more on a cultural wariness about foreigners than anything in economics. Countries like the US have traditionally seen immigrants as a boon for their economy. At every point in the rise of the US's massive economy, immigration levels have been huge. Currently, the two countries with the current highest levels of immigration, Singapore (30% foreign born) and Australia (25% foreign born) have far healthier economies than the UK and higher standards of living. On the other hand, Japan, which refuses to take immigrants for cultural reasons, has been economically stagnating for 30 years.Monkeybubbles wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:14 pm But, for myself: people who need and deserve our help may not be getting it in the way they should because other less-deserving people are taking a disproportionate share. We have finite resources as a country and we need to assign those resources with the greatest efficacy.
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Re: The BBC
Industrial polluted Poison flowing through most of our rivers.
Inflation at 10%
Food prices out of control.
Electrical and Gas companies making Billions, yet our bills are going up and up.
Nurses on strike.
DR's on strike
Firemen on Strike.
Train workers on Strike,
Postal workers on Strike.
Boris Johnson lied to Parliiment, the Queen and got caught having parties during covid.
Sunaks wife was non dom to avoid tax implications.
Baroness Mone - who is at the centre of controversy over her alleged links to a firm awarded £200m of PPE contracts - has pocketed between £30 and £45 MILLION of taxpayers money for faulty and bad quality PPE. And she's gone AWOL.
And people are worried about people coming over here on rubber boats?
Get as angry with the government as you are on immigrants. In fact, get more angry.
Our enemies are not those in rubber boats, they are those in Luxury jets.
Inflation at 10%
Food prices out of control.
Electrical and Gas companies making Billions, yet our bills are going up and up.
Nurses on strike.
DR's on strike
Firemen on Strike.
Train workers on Strike,
Postal workers on Strike.
Boris Johnson lied to Parliiment, the Queen and got caught having parties during covid.
Sunaks wife was non dom to avoid tax implications.
Baroness Mone - who is at the centre of controversy over her alleged links to a firm awarded £200m of PPE contracts - has pocketed between £30 and £45 MILLION of taxpayers money for faulty and bad quality PPE. And she's gone AWOL.
And people are worried about people coming over here on rubber boats?
Get as angry with the government as you are on immigrants. In fact, get more angry.
Our enemies are not those in rubber boats, they are those in Luxury jets.
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Re: The BBC
That's working on the assumption that immigration is being done correctly as opposed to the cake and arse lunacy we're seeing currently being enacted over here........Dimension Diver wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:20 am The idea that immigration is a problem seems to be a fairly recent one, and is mostly centred in Europe. To be honest, I think it's a bit of a myth based more on a cultural wariness about foreigners than anything in economics. Countries like the US have traditionally seen immigrants as a boon for their economy. At every point in the rise of the US's massive economy, immigration levels have been huge. Currently, the two countries with the current highest levels of immigration, Singapore (30% foreign born) and Australia (25% foreign born) have far healthier economies than the UK and higher standards of living. On the other hand, Japan, which refuses to take immigrants for cultural reasons, has been economically stagnating for 30 years.
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Re: The BBC
What do the aborigines and native Americans have to say about that? How have they done?Dimension Diver wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:20 am The idea that immigration is a problem seems to be a fairly recent one, and is mostly centred in Europe.
"Yeah but, look at the GDP"
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Re: The BBC
Stick a Russian and a Ukrainian in a room and most wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It’s down to the media and how people are made to look. Just look to see how differently the Russians were portrayed during and then after the war (WWII that is).Collison Theory wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:54 pm I agree that it's understandable that we see Ukrainians as more "identifiable",
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Re: The BBC
Only if you're whiteCollison Theory wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:54 pm But isn't that racism? Not as in hating people of a certain race, but in feeling differently towards people due to their ethnicity?
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Re: The BBC
Not to mention the Welsh.bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:50 am What do the aborigines and native Americans have to say about that? How have they done?
"Yeah but, look at the GDP"
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Re: The BBC
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- last.caress
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Re: The BBC
Gentlemen
I appreciate there has been some overlap in the wake of the Lineker thing but we have a thread dedicated to migrants crossing the channel. Here it is, look:
viewtopic.php?t=178451
If we can't restrict our conversation here to the British Broadcasting Corporation, I'll have to lock it up.
Please guys, let's stay on-topic.
Thank-you!
I appreciate there has been some overlap in the wake of the Lineker thing but we have a thread dedicated to migrants crossing the channel. Here it is, look:
viewtopic.php?t=178451
If we can't restrict our conversation here to the British Broadcasting Corporation, I'll have to lock it up.
Please guys, let's stay on-topic.
Thank-you!
- last.caress
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Re: The BBC
So anyway. The BBC, eh? I see they've changed the Cbeebies logo and stings this morning, for the first time in over twenty years. The lefty/righty bastards (delete as appropriate)!
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Re: The BBC
Typical, making an issue of white letters being imprinted like a neck press on a black background.
Only joking. Back to the BBC.
Only joking. Back to the BBC.
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Re: The BBC
I would have thought that for some visually impaired this is not a good thing? tone and balance seem too similar.
EDIT: the other thing is how much woudl that have costed the BBC (us)? FFS, you'd think they'd have better things to spend their, sorry our money on.
Last edited by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer on Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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