Liverpool 2-1 West Ham Utd (31/10/20)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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ClydeBuilt
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by ClydeBuilt »

thejackhammer wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:48 am It wasn't a penalty.

Football is not a non-contact sport, the rule is that contact has to be "sufficient to bring the player down." Salah dives over, Masuaku's contact did not bring him down.

Salah should be staring down a three match retrospective ban but no one has got one of those since Lanzini.
This is the point that is often getting lost between commentators and writers etc. The penalty for fouling in the box is a free shot at goal. It's not a right for any player if they are challenged regardless of physical contact or not.

There are loads of issues with the modern game that just make you despair at the officiating from the 5 yard start for any shy to the routine foul if another player runs across someone. How many times have you seen a player get caught for speed but just decides to cut across and 'win the foul' if that is such a thing.

You get the refs you deserve I guess and my hope for VAR was that it would correct behaviour over time but it seems to only be used to arbitrate when it feels like it.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Beavis Danzig »

penalties for fouls in the box is one of those rules that the game has evolved past the application of. the concept is simple, you get a free shot on goal because your decent chance to score was denied by a foul.

when the rules were written, nobody invisaged every millisecond of the game looked at in such forensic detail, with multimillionaires perfecting the art of manufacturing any hint of contact on the edge of the box where there is very little threat of actually scoring and relying on VAR to pick it up.

it's barely football at that point, it's a grotesque side-show to the beautiful game.

it would go a long way towards fixing the game if penalties were only awarded where there was a clear and obvious chance being denied.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Denbighammer »

Funny thing is; on 1st look i thought it looked a pen. Clumsy challenge. But having looked at the replay, he clearly dived.

Mind you having seen Newcastles penalty, maybe the rules just changed.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by S-H »

I think they just make it up as they go, don't they?
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by sendô »

Has anyone organised a whip round for Mo Salad? No doubt his ankle will be in agony by now and he'll be looking at a likely amputation.
Denbighammer wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:35 pm Mind you having seen Newcastles penalty, maybe the rules just changed.
Did you see Harry Kane's for Spurs? Intentionally backed into Lallana, contact was outside of the box.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Beavis Danzig wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:11 pm penalties for fouls in the box is one of those rules that the game has evolved past the application of. the concept is simple, you get a free shot on goal because your decent chance to score was denied by a foul.

when the rules were written, nobody invisaged every millisecond of the game looked at in such forensic detail, with multimillionaires perfecting the art of manufacturing any hint of contact on the edge of the box where there is very little threat of actually scoring and relying on VAR to pick it up.

I think the second paragraph is the crux. In the old days, the game was very agricultural. And it was pretty slow, so it was much easier to see if contact would impede the player or not

Nowadays it is so fast that it is impossible to be certain that contact has impeded a player or not. You can certainly take a view and have an opinion, but only Salah will know for 100% sure that Masuaku kicking him in the foot lead him to fall over

I would say the interpretation of the law has definitely changed though, even if not 'officially'. It now seems to me more a penalising of the defending team for doing something wrong i.e in this case Masuaku getting wrong side and kicking SAlah's foot, than the actual impact of the contact on the attacker

How you can get consistency when the game is so quick and the impact of the contact is open to interpretation / judgment, i have no idea

I don't think it should have been a penalty, but that is just my opinion. I can also see how it could be given though. VAR will never sort this type of issue out with consistency, b/c it will still come down to someones opinion, however many times you slow it down and the angles you see it from
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Billydinho »

Plenty of scousers on social media trying to justify Salah's actions by saying that if he didn't go down he wouldn't have got a penalty and that there was contact.

They also can't seem to resist the victim card for one weekend so are saying how unfair it is the treatment of Salah vs the treatment of Kane.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Clacton-ammer »

I was frustrated come the final whistle on Saturday.

Even today I'm still not 100% sure if we deserved anything from the game, we seemed to be more passive than previous games, gave too much respect (I think). In real time I thought it was a penalty, Salah made the most it as people have already posted.

One major positive is that we are incredibly difficult to beat, but without Iron Mike we lost some of our attacking threat & particularly hold up play. Subs were late again for me, wish he would hit the button 15 or so minutes earlier as the mickeys were building pressure & we had no real out ball over the top, perhaps Bowen could be that??

On a hugely positive note I fully expected to us to be bottom 3 come this part of the season, Moyes & the team deserve huge credit for the points they have. :crest:
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Coops »

If any contact is the rules then that's fine so long as it is the rule for all of us.
But would we have got the penalty if it had been at the other end?
I suspect it would have been a yellow card for our attacker and a free kick for Liverpool.

Would Liverpool have been given a penalty if one of theirs was challenged in the same way Antonio was Vs City? Again I suspect they would have been.

It is the lack of consistency which really irritates me. I don't expect officials to get every decision right, but I do expect that those mistakes are spread evenly throughout the league. Just a fair and level playing field for all teams.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by EastBrisHammer »

Every season I expect us to lose this fixture as we never seem to get much luck even when we play well enough to get something from it. I do find the unconscious bias of the referees infuriating but I suppose it is human nature.

It's a funny old season so far. The distribution of points looks more like a Championship table than a Premier League one. Long may it continue.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Denbighammer »

sendô wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:45 pm Has anyone organised a whip round for Mo Salad? No doubt his ankle will be in agony by now and he'll be looking at a likely amputation.



Did you see Harry Kane's for Spurs? Intentionally backed into Lallana, contact was outside of the box.
Kane's was a blatantly a decision by someone whose never played the game. Kane was massively looking for it and what he did was actually pretty dangerous, basically tipping Lallana in mid air, tho I will allow it as Lallana is an odious little twat.

PS #prayforMo
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by asters89 »

Putting my philosophical hat on, I'm disappointed by the result but the team's performance was a great deal better than the referee's. And I would have taken 8 points from the first 7 games, and I would have bitten your hand off for 8 points at this stage after that Newcastle defeat.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Weirdy »

Adrian Durham is about to talk about "diving" Could it include us 🤔 Talksport 6pm
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Colours never run »

Klopp passionately defends tossed Salahs dive by saying he got a knock from the incident. Well of course he got a heavy knock, he threw himself to the ground like he's urgently searching for ****ed gas.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by GreenIron »

Klopp has just gone down massively in my estimation. He's lying and whining about it being a penalty. Salah cheated, they got the penalty, the game's over. Klopp could just keep his mouth shut and move on. But no, he has to demonstrate that he's thoroughly dishonest.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bonzosbeard »

Weirdy wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:02 pm Adrian Durham is about to talk about "diving" Could it include us 🤔 Talksport 6pm
It did include us and Durham was right on all counts.

Mentioned the Cresswell incident too.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bonzosbeard »

Dp
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by OFT »

In simple terms it's gone from 'being awarded a penalty' to 'winning a penalty'.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by ereford ammer »

I hope we take three points off the dippers in January and that helps to thwart their efforts at retaining the title. Hopefully there wil be a contoversial VAR decision in our favour and the perpetual victims will get their just desserts. Klopp to be my nomination for Hackett of the year.
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Re: ⚽ Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Vic_Watson »

bonzosbeard wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:12 pm

Mentioned the Cresswell incident too.
What`s that?
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