Manchester Utd 1-0 West Ham Utd (14/03/21)

[Vic_Watson]

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[Crossd_Hammrs]

Just another observation, I absolutely hate those cynical challenges the top 6 teams resort to, to stop other teams playing. I think someone earlier was complaining we only gave away 2 fouls to their 12. I think everyone one of their fouls was deliberate attempts to play the player and not the ball. McTomminay (3 or 4 at least), Fred and Rashford's fouls were particularly unpleasant and borderline red card.

Well I had refrained from commenting on the refereeing decisions and tactical fouling after the match, but here goes.

I thought we had matched Man Utd in terms of chances in the first half. Theirs were slightly better but I had noticed Maguire was manhandling Antonio and Dawson every single time, even on the halfway line - just a little nudge in the back just before the ball comes. He's a shrewd player: doesn't quite go far enough to make a full shove on players, or wrestle them down, just does enough to impede them. Including the 'blocking by not jumping' tactic a couple of times, but not as far as the Harry Kane 'move under the jumper' tactic.
I was also pleased to see Atkinson book McTomminay and Fred for their fouls midway through the first half. Man City and Spurs had enjoyed impunity throughout the first half - (in the latter the ref finally gave out a couple of yellows for really bad fouls just before half time, then booked every borderline foul committed by us in the second half).
Alas, any hopes I had for the second half yesterday were quickly dashed by Man Utd's goal. We just didn't seem to play with any urgency or ambition. Maybe this was partially a consequence of the fouling (given and not given) and break up of play, but isn't it telling that we only gave away two fouls? And one of those wasn't a foul - Rice kicking the ball while Fernandes was stood upon it (a particularly disappointing decision given the position of the ref and that it thwarted what would have been a promising counter-attacks late in the 90th minute - and allowed another 40s to be wasted).
Man United had a bit of luck with the goal, but they continued to attack and fight for every ball in midfield, and if the score had been 3-0 I wouldn't have felt it was an unfair reflection of the game - but I would still bemoan the cynical fouls and inept referreeing.
Yes, despite the early bookings, Atkinson then allowed McTomminay and Fred (especially) to keep making fouls in the second half - Fred loooked particualrly nervous after one of them, as though he was expecting a second yellow himself. There was no booking for the blatant time wasting by Fernandes and another who both feigned injuries to delay taking a corner they had won, nor for Henderson who in the 89th (and 90th) minute spent 50 seconds over a goal kick, waving his defence up the pitch. That goal kick was a result of another disappointing referee decision when it really mattered: Maguire manhandling (again) Dawson who went down in the box. Yes, I think Dawson went to ground, but that shouldn't detract from the foul that had been committed, and it's hard not to think these decisions are made dependeant on the shirt you wear, as Big Six players get penalties for much lighter contact than the couple of shoves, the both arms over Dawson's shoulders while not even looking at the ball as performed by Maguire. At the least, it was obstruction.
That's two infuriating refereeing decisions, but there were two more really annoying ones - in the first half a goal kick was awarded as the defender kicked through the back of Antonio's foot to force the ball out - what does the ref think has happened there? It was clear that if the defender didn't kick the ball he kicked the player, so the only way to arrive at a goal kick is to excuse the clumsy foul that caused the attacker to lose the ball!
Finally, the worst incidence of tactical fouling I've seen for a since Cameroon v Argentina at World Cup 90: James' hacking down of Lanzini in injury time, barely 30 yards up the pitch with planty of players back! Replays showed he actually tried it twice, either side of an attempt my Fernandes.
Yes, he got booked for it, but somehow that didn't feel enough for this blatant, intentional foul play - perhaps the ref should have booked each attempt (yellow for Fernandes and two for James). Surely this level of cheating warrants a red, but I suppose if they made that a rule, the players would then just disguise the foul in a slding 'tackle' - but at least the cynical foul will be disguised.

[Humbug]

I thought Diop was terrible in this match and doesn't have much intelligence as a defender. Lost Rashford who should have scored an easy header 2 yrds from goal, makes terrible decisions committing himself far too early leaving Dawson high and dry. Hopefully Ogbonna will be fit soon and tighten up our defence. Diop is still only 24 but imho needs a few more years to learn the skills required to hack it in the PL.

[Doc H Ball]

I thought Diop was terrible in this match and doesn't have much intelligence as a defender. Lost Rashford who should have scored an easy header 2 yrds from goal, makes terrible decisions committing himself far too early leaving Dawson high and dry. Hopefully Ogbonna will be fit soon and tighten up our defence. Diop is still only 24 but imho needs a few more years to learn the skills required to hack it in the PL.

Worrying thing is he's gone from looking like he could.

[funky chicken]

As awful as we was in this game, and we were blooming awful, if Dawson doesn't score that own goal we still draw 0-0 away to arguably the 2nd best team in the division. Us, a team that stayed in the League by only 5 points last season only just about lost to Man Utd, while we played nowhere near our best and was missing our best centre half (Ogbonna), our legs in midfield (Fornals), our most inform attacker (Lingard) and even one of our most key players when playing the wingback formation (Masuaku). And yet Man Utd wouldn't of beat us without us scoring a goal for them. If that doesn't put into perspective how far we've come this season I really don't know what will.

[richneal]

I don't recall these "risk averse" claims when we beat Spurs and drew with Man City. It's all rather selective.

Agreed - both selective and entirely subjective. But at least some of those selective, subjective risk-averse claims come from people like me. I'd argue that Moyes' hallmark is his safety-first, risk averse approach against nearly every team we play. And it obviously pays off - Moyes has done an excellent job this season . . . but I'm uncomfortable watching us play 8-1-1 until we go a goal down.

I don't want to watch us go thru' another match versus ManYoo where we can't spring a single shot on target. Regardless of the results, the first half performances versus Spurs and City were a world apart from what we saw Sunday night. I'd argue that once in a blue moon Moyes has to roll the dice a lot earlier than he did on Sunday. Only hindsight is 20/20, so we'll never know what would have happened if Moyes had brought on Lanzini and Benrhama on at the half . . .

Everyone has an opinion - here's what Will Unwin in The Guardian thinks

10 Talking points from the weekend's action

Manchester United are not to be feared
Teams seem to travel to Old Trafford thinking the Class of ’92 are still providing the Manchester United backbone. West Ham were the latest to sit back and defend, lacking the confidence that could see them break down a team with questionable stability at the back. There is residual fear that they can rip through teams but under Ole Gunnar Solskjær they have rarely showed they have the capabilities to stun teams going forward. Sometimes the best form of defence is attack, as putting them under pressure is a better idea than setting up with a low block to stop a side lacking any sort of fluidity. United do not have enough players to open defences within tight spaces, only Bruno Fernandes and Paul Pogba can claim to be dynamic playmakers. Other teams should take note a visit to Old Trafford is not to be feared – they are a different side now, one that can be got at.

[Denbighammer]

I thought Diop was terrible in this match and doesn't have much intelligence as a defender. Lost Rashford who should have scored an easy header 2 yrds from goal, makes terrible decisions committing himself far too early leaving Dawson high and dry. Hopefully Ogbonna will be fit soon and tighten up our defence. Diop is still only 24 but imho needs a few more years to learn the skills required to hack it in the PL.

Yep. Greenwood should have punished him more when he hit the post. Diops positioning & general reading of the situation was terrible. Agree on the header he presented to Rashford too. Its always been my belief that Diop is actually very poor in the air for his size.

[paulhs1]

I'm still upset about this match.

[S-H]

I'm still upset about this match.

What match?

[paulhs1]

What match?

The self inflicted "mismatch".