America - Guns & Mass Shootings

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Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:28 pm We've all seen reports over the years of American courts holding various manufacturers responsible for how their products are able to be used, like (I believe) Porsche for allowing their cars to be driven quickly and therefore responsible when they crash due to excessive speed, or (perhaps urban myth) a pet owner who dried her just bathed pet in a microwave oven, 'because the instructions didn't say she couldn't', so why aren't weapons manufacturers held similarly responsible?
can you imagine being the first person who starts a group action against gun manufacturers in the US? :crylol: be a bit like salman rushdie
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:04 pm can you imagine being the first person who starts a group action against gun manufacturers in the US? :crylol: be a bit like salman rushdie
I'm fuzzy on the details but Texas has brought in a law allowing individuals to sue ANYONE involved in an abortion. Even a cab driver who takes her to the airport.

So California has done the same thing but with guns and victims of gun violence.
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Shabu wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:15 pm I'm fuzzy on the details but Texas has brought in a law allowing individuals to sue ANYONE involved in an abortion. Even a cab driver who takes her to the airport.

So California has done the same thing but with guns and victims of gun violence.
Presumably the person seeking the abortion won't be suing, so who will?
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:22 pm Presumably the person seeking the abortion won't be suing, so who will?
Anyone.

If you found out your neighbour had an abortion you can sue her and everyone involved.

As I said I'm not 100% on the facts but I'm pretty sure that's right.
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

:shock:
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Shabu wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:29 pm Anyone.

If you found out your neighbour had an abortion you can sue her and everyone involved.

As I said I'm not 100% on the facts but I'm pretty sure that's right.
Who gets the proceeds of the suing?

Would it be like 'I am mentally scared that my neighbour would do such an unholy, ungodly and satanic thing.... I think $10million would cover my distress'..
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

This should explain it...

At midnight in Texas, a horrifying law (SB 8) went into effect banning abortion before many people know they’re pregnant. This extreme ban has thus far evaded legal challenges by using a novel enforcement approach: deputizing any person to act as a bounty hunter, spy on their neighbors, and secure a $10,000+ reward for successfully suing someone who helps a person seeking abortion care after about six weeks of pregnancy.

https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/report ... -got-here/
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

Sorry for this thread going off topic
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:28 pm We've all seen reports over the years of American courts holding various manufacturers responsible for how their products are able to be used, like (I believe) Porsche for allowing their cars to be driven quickly and therefore responsible when they crash due to excessive speed, or (perhaps urban myth) a pet owner who dried her just bathed pet in a microwave oven, 'because the instructions didn't say she couldn't', so why aren't weapons manufacturers held similarly responsible?
The potentially successful approach to this would similar to to what worked with going against big tobacco. Suing based on the results of a legally-permissible decision by individuals was never going to prevail. What did eventually work was litigation on behalf of third parties who were harmed by the adverse health effects of smoking: the individual states who were burdened with additional health care costs based on tobacco-caused illnesses. Since the states were not the ones making the choice of whether to smoke, they could not be viewed as having responsibility for the decision to smoke - I think I'm wording that correctly. Anyway, here's a summary: https://www.tortmuseum.org/98-tobacco-settlement/

In theory, if gun manufacturers could be shown to be practicing the same sort of conscious neglect, presumably a similar case could be pursued, although there are 2nd Amendment considerations that weren't there with tobacco - no constitutional right to smoke exists. Also problematic is that there isn't the same depth of research on the effects of gun violence, as there is a specific prohibition on the federal government doing that type of research.
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Thanks for that excellent response.

the effects of gun violence, as there is a specific prohibition on the federal government doing that type of research.

Is that a recent thing or has it always been thus? Does similar apply to other constitutionally permitted activities?
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:30 pm Thanks for that excellent response.

the effects of gun violence, as there is a specific prohibition on the federal government doing that type of research.

Is that a recent thing or has it always been thus? Does similar apply to other constitutionally permitted activities?
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

This one kind of slipped under the radar but yesterday in Raleigh North Carolina a 15 year old boy strolled through his neighbourhood shooting people, killing 5.

Doesn't appear to be a motive but a neighbour said the kid was a bit odd.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local ... 01562.html
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

This is only tangentially related (read the thread until the end) but it does show how screwed up we are in septicland

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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Morocco Mole »

Shabu wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:29 pm Anyone.

If you found out your neighbour had an abortion you can sue her and everyone involved.

As I said I'm not 100% on the facts but I'm pretty sure that's right.
Even better, you can shoot them. :newthumb:
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

Sounds like a lucky escape for many.

Bloke with a gun gets into a school and starts shooting. Two dead before he gets shot and killed.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles ... igh-school
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by WCpete »

Shabu wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:19 pm Sounds like a lucky escape for many.

Bloke with a gun gets into a school and starts shooting. Two dead before he gets shot and killed.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles ... igh-school
Police killed him almost immediately. Makes Uvalde police look even worse than they already did.
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

WCpete wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:46 pm Police killed him almost immediately. Makes Uvalde police look even worse than they already did.
True, but if this one had happened first maybe the roles would have been reversed
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Shabu »

Last December a teenage kid named Ethan Crumbley near Detroit shot & killed 4 of his classmates, injuring others.

His parents had bought him the gun a few days before & he'd written notes saying that he was going to commit a school shooting (effectively).

So local prosecutors have charged the parents (the kid plead guilty to all charges). When it happened thet actually withdrew all their money from the bank & we trying to flee to Canada before being found hiding by the border.

Many are saying they shouldn't be charged as they didn't do it. But could they have prevented it? Minutes before it happened they'd been called to the school to take him home but refused.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/loc ... it-coming/
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Plashet Grove Pete »

Shabu wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:32 pm
Many are saying they shouldn't be charged as they didn't do it. But could they have prevented it? Minutes before it happened they'd been called to the school to take him home but refused.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/loc ... it-coming/
It's a tricky one. On balance, I'd say Americans have the inalienable right to own guns, and to use them. So provided they only shoot their own citizens, let's just let them get on with it, eh?

The land of freedom. :crylol:
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Re: The Latest Mass Shooting In America

Post by Plashet Grove Pete »

And another one ... at a university this time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63624611
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