Home Nations Support

All discussion relating to international tournaments including qualifying groups/matches. Since 2006.

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Doc H Ball
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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Doc H Ball » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:02 pm

Way too many hair triggers out there.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by woodford » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:04 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:02 pm
Way too many hair triggers out there.
And is it just me or does it seem to have intensified during lockdown? Loads of angry people about

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Het-Field » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:27 pm

Jumby wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:56 am
I think the turning point for me having any real interest in England doing well was the 00's, they became a really unlikeable bunch with a succession of unimaginative managers. As a Welshman I've experienced a lot of "banter" and I often give as good as I get once an Englishman makes the first move but for me it's not any real contempt for England, I just haven't liked the teams which has been the same for me with a number of various international sides from all over the World down the years. Nobody is obliged to like anyone,

For me, the 1990s and the early 2000s left far more of a mark. The hooligan issue was a primary issue of mine. It was a constant news item on Sky News at major tournaments, and even during qualification campaigns. It became hard not to make a huge association between the support and the actions at the Euros in Sweden and the Benelux Countries, or the World Cup in France.

The pantomime around the team in the 1990s was also rather annoying, and that was a direct product of the myths and legacies around Euro '96. France 1998 had it all, starting with the Gazza omission, the riots in Marseille, El Tel's 'only one winner now', after Owen equalised against Romania only to lose it, and then the entire Argentina game, which ultimately led to Beckham and (to a lesser extent) returning home as Public Enemy Number on. Euro 2000 had the major flop, but also the massive unrest amongst fans. It was a very coordinated narrative which merged pop culture with football, and a failure to see certain failings in that team.

World Cup 2006 was another version of that. Talk of 'Golden Generations', awareness of the identity of the vast majority of the WAGs (more pantomime), the Red Top hyperbole. It was only going to end one way, and in reality, it did.

The cough around the narrative of English football was softened between 2008-2016, and by the time Russia came round, only a handful of supporters actually travelled. But, unbeknownst to them, something special was about to start. What makes this team likeable is the manager, the players themselves, the spread of selection which makes the team relatable (not just pumped with Spurs and Liverpool), and the way they have gone about their business. The fans have also become very jubilant and celebratory, justifiably so, and without any of the transgressions of the past re-appearing.

Old habits will die hard amongst the 'Home Nations', but having spoken with many friends form the nations over the past few days, the attitude towards this England team is more positive than one might think.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:28 pm

sendô wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:39 am
So supporting England when they do well in a major tournament is racist now?

I'm not sure that you're keeping up with the conversation , Sendo .

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by fjthegrey » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:48 pm

Het-Field wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:27 pm
What makes this team likeable is the manager, the players themselves, the spread of selection which makes the team relatable (not just pumped with Spurs and Liverpool), and the way they have gone about their business...

...the attitude towards this England team is more positive than one might think.
I think this bolded bit is the biggest reason. If England win, this won't be a collection of perennial, big club, trophy winners adding another medal to the collection. I think 50% of this squad have never won a trophy. That goes a long way in explaining the hunger to be honest.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by DasNutNock2 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:56 pm

Yup, England during the Manc/scouse/arse clique era were pretty unbearable. Self-invested individuals more concerned with personal glory and club success, fuelled by club-instilled siege mentality. Southgate was the first to properly deal with that in a sensible manner (maclaren sucked up to the players and wanted to be their best friend, capello wanted to control them like a 1950s PE teacher, Hodgson just didn’t have any semblance of authority).

He treats his players with respect and expects the same in return. When they’ve messed up off the pitch he’s been ruthless without hanging them out to dry. He’s emphasised the importance of trust in each other, that the collective outweighs the individual and encouraged them to forge genuine friendships that disregard club loyalty. That’s Southgate’s single greatest achievement in management, IMO.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by sendô » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:06 pm

DasNutNock2 wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:56 pm
Yup, England during the Manc/scouse/arse clique era were pretty unbearable. Self-invested individuals more concerned with personal glory and club success, fuelled by club-instilled siege mentality.
Rio Ferdinand said something after one of the games the other day. Might have been Germany. Something about the subs not used, or coming on at the end or something like that. Basically commenting on how eager the players are to get on and help in any way, and the subs are visibly supporting the players on the pitch, whereas in his day they'd be thinking about calling their agents, feigning injury, reluctant to come on etc.

Honestly it made me detest the egotistical prick even more.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by sendô » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:15 pm

Het-Field wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:27 pm
What makes this team likeable is the manager, the players themselves, the spread of selection which makes the team relatable (not just pumped with Spurs and Liverpool), and the way they have gone about their business.
Good post in general there Het, but this bit in particular stands out. Southgate is no longer simply picking the biggest names from the biggest clubs, but the best players from all over the league and fitting them into a system.

The match the other day had players from Man City, Man Utd, West Ham, Leeds, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton, with a Villa and Liverpool player coming off of the bench, plus of course Trippier from Atletico Madrid. Eleven different clubs.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Het-Field » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:24 pm

DasNutNock2 wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:56 pm
Yup, England during the Manc/scouse/arse clique era were pretty unbearable. Self-invested individuals more concerned with personal glory and club success, fuelled by club-instilled siege mentality. Southgate was the first to properly deal with that in a sensible manner (maclaren sucked up to the players and wanted to be their best friend, capello wanted to control them like a 1950s PE teacher, Hodgson just didn’t have any semblance of authority).

He treats his players with respect and expects the same in return. When they’ve messed up off the pitch he’s been ruthless without hanging them out to dry. He’s emphasised the importance of trust in each other, that the collective outweighs the individual and encouraged them to forge genuine friendships that disregard club loyalty. That’s Southgate’s single greatest achievement in management, IMO.
I genuinely believe there are very few other managers out there who would let (on paper) a combination of West Ham and Leeds anchor the midfield, or bring on an Aston Villa midfielder to join them, or have somebody from Wolverhampton Wanderers understudy to the two main Centre Backs. Or vested faith in two goalkeepers from relegated clubs, as opposed to pugging around for any other option that might have been available via a 'bigger club' (its harder when there is a lack of choices)

There are other managers out there who would have brought two CDM's, sweated on the fitness of Henderson, but would have seen Dier as a legacy player, and brought both, and playing one in the system. And there are more examples. Lingard (yes I know!) had an excellent end to the season, but could have been brought in lieu of Grealish? Chris Smalling in Serie A, he's experienced, perhaps bring him instead of Coady. Calvert Lewin, well he's only had a couple of good seasons, Tammy Abraham had a half decent year, and played a bit in the ECL. It might have been easier to have gone that way. Phil Foden has great potential, but Harry Winks has the experience. Its a very long list of just how digestible, but also milquetoast, the England squad could have been if he played it 'safe'.

And this is more than just in the vacuum of Euro 2020. Rob Holding played over 30 games at Arsenal last term. Historically, he would have been capped. Rhys Williams at Liverpool may have been a wildcard selection (ala Walcott, or Jon Flanagan in the extended panel from 2014)

English football is more than just the 'ESL' teams, and with that realisation is coming both success and support.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Samba » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:22 pm

Het-Field wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:27 pm
For me, the 1990s and the early 2000s left far more of a mark. The hooligan issue was a primary issue of mine. It was a constant news item on Sky News at major tournaments, and even during qualification campaigns. It became hard not to make a huge association between the support and the actions at the Euros in Sweden and the Benelux Countries, or the World Cup in France.

The pantomime around the team in the 1990s was also rather annoying, and that was a direct product of the myths and legacies around Euro '96. France 1998 had it all, starting with the Gazza omission, the riots in Marseille, El Tel's 'only one winner now', after Owen equalised against Romania only to lose it, and then the entire Argentina game, which ultimately led to Beckham and (to a lesser extent) returning home as Public Enemy Number on. Euro 2000 had the major flop, but also the massive unrest amongst fans. It was a very coordinated narrative which merged pop culture with football, and a failure to see certain failings in that team.

World Cup 2006 was another version of that. Talk of 'Golden Generations', awareness of the identity of the vast majority of the WAGs (more pantomime), the Red Top hyperbole. It was only going to end one way, and in reality, it did.

The cough around the narrative of English football was softened between 2008-2016, and by the time Russia came round, only a handful of supporters actually travelled. But, unbeknownst to them, something special was about to start. What makes this team likeable is the manager, the players themselves, the spread of selection which makes the team relatable (not just pumped with Spurs and Liverpool), and the way they have gone about their business. The fans have also become very jubilant and celebratory, justifiably so, and without any of the transgressions of the past re-appearing.

Old habits will die hard amongst the 'Home Nations', but having spoken with many friends form the nations over the past few days, the attitude towards this England team is more positive than one might think.
I can believe that, Het. Good post, btw.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by smuts » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:27 pm

sendô wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:06 pm
Rio Ferdinand said something after one of the games the other day. Might have been Germany. Something about the subs not used, or coming on at the end or something like that. Basically commenting on how eager the players are to get on and help in any way, and the subs are visibly supporting the players on the pitch, whereas in his day they'd be thinking about calling their agents, feigning injury, reluctant to come on etc. Avoiding drug tests...

Honestly it made me detest the egotistical prick even more.
There's not many of ex players I dislike but he's one of them.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Puff Daddy » Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:51 pm

They can and they will boo Italy's all they like, but the Italian players themselves and their fans will belt it out nonetheless. It was actually written by a 20 year old and was inspired by The Marsellaise. It is all about fighting and dieing for their country and for the cause and for all Italians to join in the re -unification after Italy became one country and one republic (in 1871)

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Ludeksgloves » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:19 pm


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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:05 am

Ludeksgloves wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:19 pm
Wrong sport, same sentiment :lol:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WIpu1Kmhq94

Nice one . :newthumb:

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by jastons » Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:11 am

Why I want England to lose


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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by e17 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:03 pm

Loathe that Limmy bloke. Always looks like he needs to buy some Mitchum

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Korea Hammer » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:12 pm

Even without watching that, I long ago realised that Limmy is a thoroughly nasty piece of work deep down. His autobiography is one of the most nauseatingly self-centred things I've ever had the displeasure to read.

That notwithstanding, I would never expect a Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish person to support England, nor vice versa. But I think a lot of the background noise around this tournament is definitely sour grapes.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by e17 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:34 pm

Korea Hammer wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:12 pm
Even without watching that, I long ago realised that Limmy is a thoroughly nasty piece of work deep down. His autobiography is one of the most nauseatingly self-centred things I've ever had the displeasure to read.
His racist brother is even worse. Did time for going after a female journo and playing the anti catholic/Irish card while doing so.

Amazing the bloke is employed by the BBC really considering their attitude towards all “isms” plus he’s about as amusing as Mrs Browns out takes

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by Junco Partner » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:27 pm

Buonasera boys,

Sorta tuned the tournament out after the Scots and Welsh went home...have I missed much? Image

Funny how it's part of your country with a chance to win a major football tournament but you can't quite support them full-throatedly because it's not your bit of the country, however having lived and worked in England for many years and having many English mates it would be nice to see them win for all their sakes. But like most non-English Brits shudder at the thought of the massive tsunami of media bull**** that will wash over us if they do.

Gary Neville called it right the other night about Southgate's leadership qualities which makes his team much more relatable and easier to like, it was really hard not so long ago with the likes of John Terry & Steven Gerrard heading up a collection of arseholes like Ashley Cole & Wayne Rooney to view them with anything but disdain. That's changed.

Now, they do play quite well in periods, plus with Declan in the the middle it tips my scales towards 'support'; and to be honest I never really got the visceral hate and knee-jerk hostility towards England you find in lots of Irish and Scots, but I was brought up differently I guess. Sure they're the annoying, loud, boastful, brash, domineering mate...but they're still your mate, y'know.

Anyway, good luck England tonight I hope they do well and I will sorta, kinda be supporting them in a detached, emotionally uninvested and have-a-bit-of-a-chuckle-to-myself-if-they-lose way. Good luck boys :newthumb:

Ciao, ciao.

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Re: Home Nations Support

Post by S-H » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:38 pm

:blowkiss:

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