Gareth Southgate.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by last.caress » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:14 am

Far too many personal insults pinging around this thread, gentlemen. Take a step back and take a breath, everybody. Let's not have to shut down what could be a decent debate with a wide, equally valid variance of opinions.

Cheers fellas xxx

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by NH Hammer » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:23 am

Ok looking at this as an outsider England did well to get to the final, but honestly can anyone tell me why Rice was subbed tonight, he was playing superbly. What is and always has been Englands Achilles heel.....Penaltys. Why do you put a 19 year old kid in Englands biggest match in 55 years at #5 pen taker he looked scared to death. He should have saved one or two spots on roster for penalty taking specialists.....Mark Noble would have put that away.Bring in Dicks to teach these kids to smash home a pen. No more of this hop skip and jump approaches to the ball, run at it and smash it home.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Coops » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:25 am

I think he got it wrong three times tonight. Back 5, subbing Rice, choice of penalty kick takers.
But over this tournament he has got far more right than he has wrong. He has a young squad, and he has made us proud of our team again. This tournament has shown us that we no longer need to fear anybody.
Southgate is the man to lead us to Qatar.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Shabu » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:27 am

Coops wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:25 am
I think he got it wrong three times tonight. Back 5, subbing Rice, choice of penalty kick takers.
But over this tournament he has got far more right than he has wrong. He has a young squad, and he has made us proud of our team again. This tournament has shown us that we no longer need to fear anybody.
Southgate is the man to lead us to Qatar.
Just asking, not criticising, but why do you think back 5 was the wrong tactics considering we were much the better team first half?

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by DrVenk » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:40 am

Ah, we'll all boozed up, so let's put the lava lamp on and take stock...

Southgate has performed well by England manager standards in terms of how far we go in tournaments. He stays and deserves too.

That bigger issue set to one side, we should be able to zoom into the footballing aspects without there being any need to reach for phrase like "best ever" or "charlatan". Come on. I personally am not a fan of his tactical approach to the game and I have felt that when the team needs to be inspired, I just suspect he is not able to do so, hence notable stories recently about how Conor Coady is a big motivator behind the scenes, and I saw Trippier earlier given a lot of the geeing up prior to penalties. Now, that might be sufficient, I don't know, but I suspect in big moments like tonight, you do need a manager who is more of galvanising force.

A game of two halves tonight, and I wonder to what degree the dismal second half display was down to a negative approach of protecting a 1-0 lead, or the players just gradually retreated due to lacking a bit of belief in being able to get back into the game and control it more. The Italians were allowed to dictate the play in the second half and it's not easy to gain back control of a game once lost. So - tactical or more psychological?

I think Keane on penalties and Neville on the potential lack of belief generally sums up why we lost quite well...


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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by TheHandOfDog » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:50 am

Muddy wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:51 pm
Best England manager i've seen in my lifetime, also most enjoyable England squad i've watched in my lifetime.
World cup semi final and the European finals consecutively. I never would've dreamed that was possible under Sven, Capello, Woy, ect.
I think the future looks bright.
Completely agree, Gareth Southgate has just got us within a few penalties off winning a major trophy.....that is insane. Next 2 tournies at least for Gareth, anything other than that is dumb imo.

And for those who don't rate Southgate that is fine, but the facts don't lie, our 2nd best ever England manager and he is still learning and improving with a squad of players doing the same. So proud of him and the boys

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:14 am

HammerAl wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:52 am
Got pelters on here last week for saying that I still didn’t rate him as a manager. I stick by it, nice man, not a great manager. He’s reactive rather than proactive, too pragmatic and I actually think he makes too many (quite unforgivable) mistakes that he seems to get away with.
Interesting you say that, as I feel slightly different. For me, he had a set plan that he was following come he’ll or high water. He subbed off Rice despite him being the best player on the pitch for England, and then those barmy penalty subs.

To me he lacks that vision to see what is going wrong, and the ability to respond. I think he is deeply dedicated to data, which is a good thing, but he lacks the tactical awareness of someone like a Mancini. I felt the latter won it from the dugout tonight.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:16 am

TheHandOfDog wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:50 am
.

And for those who don't rate Southgate that is fine, but the facts don't lie, our 2nd best ever England manager and he is still learning and improving with a squad of players doing the same. So proud of him and the boys
Perhaps statistically, but Sir Bobby, El Tel, Hoddle and even Sven were all better for me. The devil is in the details, as I feel Gareth is blessed with the best squad and the easiest draws. Can you see Southgate beating Brazil where Sven didn’t?

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Shabu » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:41 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:16 am
Perhaps statistically, but Sir Bobby, El Tel, Hoddle and even Sven were all better for me. The devil is in the details, as I feel Gareth is blessed with the best squad and the easiest draws. Can you see Southgate beating Brazil where Sven didn’t?
Anyone could say Yes or No but it wouldn't change anything.

The fact is that Southgate has got us to two semi finals & a final which is amazing. I've not experienced this in my 52 years.

The players seem to like him so as long as he gets us to the quarter finals every tournament he's worth keeping.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Daniel1895 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:46 am

Besides 2014, Germany got all their Cup glories from so called "easy draws".

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Kludgehammer » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:03 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:16 am
Perhaps statistically, but Sir Bobby, El Tel, Hoddle and even Sven were all better for me. The devil is in the details, as I feel Gareth is blessed with the best squad and the easiest draws. Can you see Southgate beating Brazil where Sven didn’t?
Sven?? If ever there was a massive charlatan, that's the one - picking his favourite players even though they don't fit the positions, completely freezing against Brazil when we were 1-0 up against 10 men.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Jon » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:06 am

I always worried his negative approach would hinder us at some stage in this tournament. He had to get us up the pitch second half and use the bench to achieve that. He failed in that.

Was it 6 subs allowed?? That’s now a massive part of being a manager. Only 2 were made in normal time. 2 were made at 120 mins. Henderson the other sub was subbed…

My other gripe was the squad itself. I wanted Ward Prowse for this exact situation in ET/pens. A proven dead ball specialist.

For decades the approach to pens has to cover every detail. Southgate panicked at 120 minutes and took a gamble with 2 cold players.

A huge opportunity for glory gone. This was a HOME tournament and we came up short. Well played Italy🇮🇹

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by westham,eggyandchips » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:21 am

Gareth is/was the best manager since Ramsey. Fact.

Last night he got things wrong once Mancini had sussed us out and we looked like "same old England" with how defensive we got and the tactics and substitutions.

But we should be proud. I am.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Georgee Paris » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:31 am

We should have gone got the kill at 1-0 but instead we took our foot off their throat. More ruthless in the future please Gareth.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Pob! » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:35 am

1, Throughout he has been spot on with correct decisions (except subs)
2, I do find the football he plays boring
3, He is a master at man/player management
4, He (for me) is too slow in making changes when needed
5 V Italy he got it wrong. First 20 minutes we were fantastic the rest of the game Italy worked us out and Southgate didn't have a plan B.

We lost, next the world cup so we move!

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by pablo jaye » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:35 am

2018 - semi final
2020/1 - final

I reckon this is a work in progress.

I am particularly impressed by what he has done with the defence who are a far greater whole than the sum of the parts. 2 goals conceded in the whole tournament.

Deckers and Phillips are a big part of this and I wouldn’t be surprised if a few more teams adopt this tactic.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by MB » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:47 am

Wouldn't want him anywhere near West Ham but his results speak for themselves in terms of performance.

On paper this isn't the strongest England squad and yet he just took us to a final. He understands what is required at this level and won't be pressured with "release the shackles" etc etc. He'll do what is required to get results.

Last night showed one slight weakness for me in that certain players seem to get a pass. Mount wasn't at the races yesterday and needed pulling before the Italians scored for someone who would keep their back line honest but Southgate loves his industry too much.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by smuts » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:14 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:16 am
Perhaps statistically, but Sir Bobby, El Tel, Hoddle and even Sven were all better for me. The devil is in the details, as I feel Gareth is blessed with the best squad and the easiest draws. Can you see Southgate beating Brazil where Sven didn’t?
Sven? Do me a favour.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by smuts » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:21 am

He'll look back on last night and with hindsight will probably think he should have hiked Mount off earlier and sorted out why our CF resorted to playing the so called "Rooney" role (when your CF decides that he's going to play his football 50 yards from goal) which the Italians cottoned on to early and took it in turns to foul him.

At times, you did think this would be ideal for Lingard to break at pace like he did for us...

Hopefully Foden will be the one to play that role in the hole.

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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by PlaistowIron » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:23 am

He took the job on when the relationship between the national team and the English fans was at an all time low.

The scenes throughout the tournament have been an absolute joy. We can all be proud of our team again.

He’s done a phenomenal job and deserves to take the team to Qatar.

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