Gareth Southgate.

All discussion relating to international tournaments including qualifying groups/matches. Since 2006.

Moderators :  chalks, Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo

Post Reply
User avatar
r99c
Posts: 3945
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:58 pm
Location: Essex
Has liked: 64 likes
Total likes: 30 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by r99c » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:02 pm

People focus too much on the pitch, each game and not what surrounds the game.

Everyone needs to remember that A LOT more of football in terms of the team/management all goes on behind the scenes. People must not underestimate the huge impact that Southgate has clearly had. The team was in disarray, behind the scenes, for years and years before he came along.

Yes, perhaps mistakes were made yesterday, even with mistakes we drew after 120 mins with a top top international side and were within a few penalties of winning the whole thing. But it's obvious little to no mistakes were made in the build up because we have gone from 2014 World Cup dumped out in group, 2016 Euros dumped out by Iceland to suddenly making it to a semi then a final.

For all this, the team spirit kind of thing and how he has obviously transformed the culture, he should manage at the World Cup (assuming we qualify for it!) and then re-evaluate

p.s, apologies for my drunken crap posts made last night

Rozzop
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:31 pm

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Rozzop » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:26 pm

Too conservative for me.

Talk before the tournament was how we didn't have the best defence so I understand why we would play that way but you also have to consider Kane is very slow so our build ups were mostly slow and ponderous.

Both the World Cup and the Euros now we have had an easier route to the last four. On paper a semi final and then a final is good progress but will we actually win anything playing this way?

To not play Grealish more instead of Mount is baffling. To retreat into our shells after 30 minutes and invite Italian pressure for an hour is baffling. To play for a clean sheet and nick a goal from a set piece is all very well and good but we don't have the players at the top level to do that.

Its all very Allardyce and I just wonder what the results would have been if the team and set up was a bit more attacking.

User avatar
ironsonthebrain
Posts: 1859
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:54 am
Has liked: 52 likes
Total likes: 6 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by ironsonthebrain » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:47 pm

Rozzop wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:26 pm
Too conservative for me.

Talk before the tournament was how we didn't have the best defence so I understand why we would play that way but you also have to consider Kane is very slow so our build ups were mostly slow and ponderous.

Both the World Cup and the Euros now we have had an easier route to the last four. On paper a semi final and then a final is good progress but will we actually win anything playing this way?

To not play Grealish more instead of Mount is baffling. To retreat into our shells after 30 minutes and invite Italian pressure for an hour is baffling. To play for a clean sheet and nick a goal from a set piece is all very well and good but we don't have the players at the top level to do that.

Its all very Allardyce and I just wonder what the results would have been if the team and set up was a bit more attacking.
It may have been a bit Allardyce in the second half - Hammers fans knew only too well how defending a one goal lead was going to end up- would have been good to see England go for a second goal and then shut the game down.
Not getting the love for Grealish, apart from one cross I don't see it to be honest. Mount works his guts out. Same for Sancho - had his chance but failed to impress. Thought Bellingham looked a better bet TBH.

User avatar
Morocco Mole
Posts: 16733
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:31 pm
Location: Funky Nassau
Has liked: 113 likes
Total likes: 75 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Morocco Mole » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:31 pm

Now he’s getting credit for giving Saka a hug? Conveniently forgetting that he threw the poor boy to the wolves in the first place.

Need to give social media a swerve for a couple of days I think.

User avatar
Coops
Posts: 6645
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:23 am
Location: Rayleigh, Essex
Has liked: 19 likes
Total likes: 8 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Coops » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:22 pm

Shabu wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:27 am
Just asking, not criticising, but why do you think back 5 was the wrong tactics considering we were much the better team first half?
But we didn't create many clear cut chances and we had a wealth of attacking talent on the bench.

User avatar
TheHandOfDog
Posts: 4926
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by TheHandOfDog » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm

We can talk about styles, footballing ideals all day but the thing that matters at a tournament is how far you get, Gareth has us further than what I would ever thought possible in all honesty. I'm not trying to come off as Gareth' s mum here but the negatives about him, about this team, that I am reading are just dumb considering the reality of our improving situation in the national football team.

fmgod
Posts: 18303
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:54 pm
Has liked: 13 likes
Total likes: 31 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by fmgod » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:54 pm

I didn't rate him as a manager and still don't but he has got us a semi and final, so can't argue, my big issue I think is he gets out managed against top managers, Croatia and Italy have both done it now, we still seem very much a set-piece type of team

neathiron
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:25 pm
Location: Somewhere In Time on the Sea Of Madness

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by neathiron » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:45 pm

I said it before the Germany game, if England beat them they would never get an easier chance to reach a final given how the draw opened up for them, and all their games bar one being at Wembley.
Even being Welsh I believed the hype this time around that 'Football was coming home'.
Italy were there for the taking last night, especially after England got the early goal. Although Italy played a bit better in the 2nd half, England definitely handed more impetus to them when Rice was taken off. I still fail to see what Henderson offers for club and country.
Just found it baffling with all the attacking talent on the bench at his disposal, why Southgate left it so late to make some of the other changes. Also if he was responsible for choosing the penalty takers, surely he would have realised two of the players he brought on had barely kicked a ball. Iirc Rashford went through a phase at Man U where he missed a few penalties, so that was a disaster waiting to happen.
Defensively England have been outstanding throughout the tournament. I just think letting attacking creative players sit too long on the sidelines was a wasted opportunity to win a major tournament.
Could be a lot more difficult to reach a final in the future. Also think the disgraceful scenes of people getting in to the stadium for free last night will have done England a lot of damage regarding hosting future tournaments.

User avatar
e17
Posts: 15810
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Deep deep down
Has liked: 22 likes
Total likes: 79 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by e17 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:03 pm

neathiron wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:45 pm
Could be a lot more difficult to reach a final in the future.
Suddenly the World Cup every 2 years concept looks a great idea

User avatar
chalks
Sliding down his pole
Posts: 19536
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:24 pm
Location: Introducing, Englands future number 7
Has liked: 13 likes
Total likes: 86 likes
Contact:

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by chalks » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:59 pm

Take back my previous criticism of GS.

He’s the best chance we have of winning a major tournament. Perfect for International management, I truly hope he stays in the job for as long as he wants it

User avatar
simonirons
Posts: 6435
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:51 pm
Location: Grandads a liar
Has liked: 28 likes
Total likes: 10 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by simonirons » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:31 pm

As a young manager, I’m sure he would agree he is far from the finished article. - what he has done is bought a lot of pride back to the national team and will only improve with time.

I wish him a long and successful England career.

User avatar
Eggchaser
Posts: 4066
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 2:24 pm
Location: Sowfampton
Has liked: 127 likes
Total likes: 7 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Eggchaser » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:40 pm

He can be proud of his achievements to date, but needs to learn from his mistakes.
Too cautious against Scotland for me and substitutions last night were poor.
However he has given us decent overall performances in the tournaments that he's managed in, and generated real excitement that no England manager has done for me since Venables.
Last edited by Eggchaser on Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

YeOldHammer
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:20 am
Total likes: 1 like

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by YeOldHammer » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:18 pm

He's got 15 months to get us to Qualify to Qatar and then get the boys match fit for some blazing hot weather. He has got us to a Semi Final and Final playing the way he wanted and using the resources he has, fair play to Southgate. He is statistically the second best England manager of all time. For once it seems like we have an England team not full of ego but full of humility. A team of youths that even after last night have shown courage to step into the spot light and give it a fair crack and wear the shirt with pride. Would love to see a trophy but as a West Ham fan i know how all rare that can be, but this is an England team i can say i am falling in love with. They understand their grass roots and where they came from and have a manager willing to nurture them and that in all honesty will do me just fine. I hope Southgate and the boys lift the trophy in 2022. :ball:

User avatar
OFT
Posts: 16177
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
Has liked: 221 likes
Total likes: 89 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by OFT » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:24 pm

Firstly, Football did 'come home' as the writers of said tune confirmed, it's about the tournament being played in the 'home' of the game. It came home, pulled up its chair, made a brew, lit the fire but sadly dozed off just before the ending and there's no +1 channel.

Right, Gareth Southgate,
Did I think he would get us to the final? No
Did he get the best from those available to him?- I think he got a bit too rigid in his use of subs ,
Did he mess up with the penalty takers? Yes he did.
Will he be offered a decent club job on the back of this tournament? Dunno, probably not
Should he continue until at least the World Cup? Of course he should.

I think after the World cup he'll pack it in anyway.

Of course, if it were to transpire that he continued to pick Declan whilst not fully fit then I reserve the right to call him all sort of things

User avatar
StokeIrons
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Stoke - World capital of Darts

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by StokeIrons » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:43 pm

OFT wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:24 pm
Firstly, Football did 'come home' as the writers of said tune confirmed, it's about the tournament being played in the 'home' of the game. It came home, pulled up its chair, made a brew, lit the fire but sadly dozed off just before the ending and there's no +1 channel.



A very good analogy :newthumb:

Rozzop
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:31 pm

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Rozzop » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:44 pm

simonirons wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:31 pm
As a young manager, I’m sure he would agree he is far from the finished article. - what he has done is bought a lot of pride back to the national team and will only improve with time.

I wish him a long and successful England career.
He's 50 years old and been a manager for 15

User avatar
Beavis Danzig
Posts: 5779
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:12 pm
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Total likes: 21 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Beavis Danzig » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:54 pm

when the time comes, which hopefully isn't too soon, potter seems like a natural evolution. cut from the same cloth as far as management style and the way he carries himself, but a bit more tactically switched on. this is assuming that his team actually start scoring goals instead of doing everything right up until the critical moment.

User avatar
Ironing Board
Posts: 11165
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:11 am
Has liked: 110 likes
Total likes: 76 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:33 am

Beavis Danzig wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:54 pm
when the time comes, which hopefully isn't too soon, potter seems like a natural evolution. cut from the same cloth as far as management style and the way he carries himself, but a bit more tactically switched on. this is assuming that his team actually start scoring goals instead of doing everything right up until the critical moment.
Unleash the Dyche!

User avatar
Samba
Posts: 18184
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:36 pm
Location: David Sullivan's least favourite fluffer.
Has liked: 441 likes
Total likes: 135 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Samba » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:39 am

neathiron wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:45 pm
I said it before the Germany game, if England beat them they would never get an easier chance to reach a final given how the draw opened up for them, and all their games bar one being at Wembley.
Even being Welsh I believed the hype this time around that 'Football was coming home'.
Italy were there for the taking last night, especially after England got the early goal. Although Italy played a bit better in the 2nd half, England definitely handed more impetus to them when Rice was taken off. I still fail to see what Henderson offers for club and country.
Just found it baffling with all the attacking talent on the bench at his disposal, why Southgate left it so late to make some of the other changes. Also if he was responsible for choosing the penalty takers, surely he would have realised two of the players he brought on had barely kicked a ball. Iirc Rashford went through a phase at Man U where he missed a few penalties, so that was a disaster waiting to happen.
Defensively England have been outstanding throughout the tournament. I just think letting attacking creative players sit too long on the sidelines was a wasted opportunity to win a major tournament.
Could be a lot more difficult to reach a final in the future. Also think the disgraceful scenes of people getting in to the stadium for free last night will have done England a lot of damage regarding hosting future tournaments.
Neath, you got that so right, mate. :newthumb:

User avatar
ironilunga
Posts: 6281
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:05 am
Has liked: 22 likes
Total likes: 78 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by ironilunga » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:59 am

Such fine margins between Gareth being lauded as a tactical genius to that of an overly cautious naive manager. If we had won on pens he’d have been a hero and nobody would have cared about his approach as it got the job done.

We were close, very close. However, in the end I do think the over cautious nature of our approach to the game cost us.

Funnily enough I belatedly just saw a sketch featuring a rather aged Delboy wishing the team luck and offering the advice ‘he who dares wins Gareth’. It seem quite prophetic now.

Post Reply