Puff Daddy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:05 pm
I see Tony Adams has waded in now, labelling Southgate. ' A good loser, but he's another tosser too, right ?
Difference between him and Jordan is that he speaks with authority after a career winning trophies. (Sadly, also not at international level).
Jordan run Crystal Palace for a while. Fantastic, thank you for coming.
It’s like Agbonlahor having a pop at Klopp, his opinion holds no authority.
Doc H Ball wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:15 pm
This ‘good loser’ tag is presumably also attached to Venables, Greenwood, Capello, Sven, Bobby Robson et al? Either that or they were bad ones.
Southgate has come closer to winning something for England than any of them, but he’s suddenly the nearly man in a sea of winners.
I believe the 'loser' tag is to cover his entire managerial career, which is devoid of success unlike those others you mention. Southgate close but still no cigar.
Which perhaps goes to show that club pedigree has little to do with international success? It’s entirely different building a team with money than managing a national side.
You’d think Ancelotti would get us over the line, but a sprinkling of the English malady and who knows? Maybe it’s in our psyche?
Whatever, I think people should be far more respectful to Southgate even if they think someone else could do better.
IMO, our biggest tactical problem in the crunch games was how to handle the opposition playmaker. I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure we let Modric have too much space in 2018, Jorginho in 2021, and Greaseball on sunday. We did well to restrict Mbappe on sunday, but that left space for Griezmann to work the ball to Giroud. A real tactical flaw that we've never quite found a solution for. Remember Pirlo in 2010? Had about 300 touches of the ball and everything went through him, so it's not a recent deficiency.
Could use a player of that type ourselves. Point's been made a billion times, but we still haven't produced a player of Gazza's calibre to unpick a defence since the erstwhile thirsty Geordie was in his pomp. Joe Cole was the closest I've seen, until Jose got his hands on him.
I really do think we learn piss, bugger all from our perennial easy qualifying groups to World Cup tournaments. I know that is not our fault and we can only beat what is put in front of us. I get that equally as well as anybody else and that we have no control over that. But, ultimately, it is FIFA who have the power to do something about this, since it is they, who are besotted with having England in the the finals because of their large fan following, spending money once they are there. It is just a thought, but we might be better prepared for these finals, if we had some proper qualifying matches, instead of the usual routs of the likes of Andorra , Slovakia, Lithuania, San Marino, and Scotland and then have Clive Tylddesley having orgasms over Harry Kane busting the net against all of them. Just a thought and just a point, but it's a good one and a highly relevant one
Puff Daddy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:30 pm
I really do think we learn piss, bugger all from our perennial easy qualifying groups to World Cup tournaments. I know that is not our fault and we can only beat what is put in front of us. I get that equally as well as anybody else and that we have no control over that. But, ultimately, it is FIFA who have the power to do something about this, since it is they, who are besotted with having England in the the finals because of their large fan following, spending money once they are there. It is just a thought, but we might be better prepared for these finals, if we had some proper qualifying matches, instead of the usual routs of the likes of Andorra , Slovakia, Lithuania, San Marino, and Scotland and then have Clive Tylddesley having orgasms over Harry Kane busting the net against all of them. Just a thought and just a point, but it's a good one and a highly relevant one
That's basically the case for the Nations League, isn't it?
I mean, it's a much-maligned tournament, but the idea of giving international sides more "competitive" fixtures with sides of a roughly similar status (especially for the San Marinos who otherwise just face a hammering every qualification tournament) is a pretty decent one.
StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:33 pm
That's basically the case for the Nations League, isn't it?
I mean, it's a much-maligned tournament, but the idea of giving international sides more "competitive" fixtures with sides of a roughly similar status (especially for the San Marinos who otherwise just face a hammering every qualification tournament) is a pretty decent one.
Yeah but my point is, most nations have some decent opposition in their qualifying groups, whereas we never have any. Our groups are a walkover for us. I know we cant help our FIFA ranking, we can only beat what is in front if us
Of course, this will remain high, if we continually beat, even thrash European minnows and that will only remain high and thus, maintain our ranking if thus continues. Germany's ranking will slide this year, because of their slipping status, so we may draw them in the next qualifying campaign. That will liven things up a bit. They will be much stronger next time and next time, more than any other time they will get it right
Diogenes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:44 pm
Except it was very poor, as commented on by many, including other referees. Did it cost us the game? Who knows, possibly not, but he was awful throughout.
yes, agree mate, and who knows, but the score was level when Kane was brought down for the first time. might have inspired the French even more, but we might have been 1-0 up and it could have been a whole different story.
however, he was still, along with the ref, the Spanish bloke maybe who was worse.
dasnutnock3 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 4:13 pm
IMO, our biggest tactical problem in the crunch games was how to handle the opposition playmaker. I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure we let Modric have too much space in 2018, Jorginho in 2021, and Greaseball on sunday. We did well to restrict Mbappe on sunday, but that left space for Griezmann to work the ball to Giroud.
If only we had a really gifted, energetic defensive minded midfielder in our squad who could be utilised in a role to sit on and snuff put those playmakers.
If only we’d had a manager in those games capable of recognising that obvious threat and counter.
sendô wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:37 pm
If only we had a really gifted, energetic defensive minded midfielder in our squad who could be utilised in a role to sit on and snuff put those playmakers.
If only we’d had a manager in those games capable of recognising that obvious threat and counter.
If there was anyone remotely available as a viable alternative I would cast Southgate adrift immediately
Unfortunately there isn't, so may as well keep him till the Euros
He will guarantee you a QF place and then lose to anyone half decent
Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:06 pm
If there was anyone remotely available as a viable alternative I would cast Southgate adrift immediately
Unfortunately there isn't, so may as well keep him till the Euros
He will guarantee you a QF place and then lose to anyone half decent
Moyes will be available in the New,Year. I mean, what about him?
Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:06 pm
If there was anyone remotely available as a viable alternative I would cast Southgate adrift immediately
Unfortunately there isn't, so may as well keep him till the Euros
He will guarantee you a QF place and then lose to anyone half decent
Possibly, if you restrict yourself to an 'English' manager. I'm not so precious about it though. Although, equally I am not that worldly wise, as some on here, who may know who is available or could be.
Diogenes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:30 pm
Possibly, if you restrict yourself to an 'English' manager. I'm not so precious about it though. Although, equally I am not that worldly wise, as some on here, who may know who is available or could be.
Having an English manager is a pre requisite for me
Southgate has done a great job and we have come really close, however...
Leading up the World Cup we looked a shambles... we were poor in the Nations League games and friendlies and didn't look like we were fully prepared for the World Cup that was coming. I get experimenting but it feels we left a lot of it too late (i.e., we shouldn't have been experimenting with a 433 in the first game of the tournament)
The USA and Wales performances were pretty poor. That doesn't negate that the US performed well and made it difficult but we weren't very good. Either we didn't raise our game because of the opposition and felt we could cruise or we got it wrong tactically but it was hardly the masterclass performances that build confidence.
We have had golden opportunities to win the last 3 tournaments in my mind (we weren't blown away in any of the games just outplayed when it counted) and keeping falling at the final hurdle. For all the great work in getting there we didn't have the manager or ability to get it over the line. I get the irony as this is maybe similar to what is being levelled by some at Moyes but for Southgate his chances don't often come around so frequently and another tournament could mean another wasted chance.
Who could step in? A tricky one because I don't think being a good club manager translates into being a good international manager and so all of the usual candidates may actually not be equipped for it. I'd like English (although not essential) and someone who can get things done quickly while managing egos. My vote (based on how he has done at Newcastle) is Eddie Howe.