Gareth Southgate.

All discussion relating to international tournaments including qualifying groups/matches. Since 2006.

Moderators: Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks, Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304

Post Reply
User avatar
Diogenes
Posts: 5039
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:07 pm
Has liked: 428 likes
Total likes: 1131 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Diogenes »

Wilko1304 wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:30 pm The arrogance of ignoring wins against countries some seem to think beneath us has reared its ugly head again
I do not believe anyone is 'ignoring' those Wilko, or devaluing them (or the opposition). The 'facts' though speak for themselves. We (Southgate) is excellent at winning games against teams of a certain level, but regularly fails against better opposition in tournament football.
E15Iron
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:36 am
Has liked: 3 likes
Total likes: 20 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by E15Iron »

Southgate for me is the only man for the job right now. The players are playing for him, has helped shape arguably the most likable England team in my lifetime.

We are getting closer. I genuinely believe that we will win the Euros in 24 and be one of the heavy favourites for USA 26.

We were a penalty shoot out away from winning the Euros, very unlucky imo not to beat France the other day too.

Southgate deserves a lot more respect than he gets. Pretty much every foreign pundit are saying England are very close to winning things. Look at Germany a few years ago, they lost in a final, semi, quarters, then went on to win the Euros and World Cup.

It's coming, and I believe it will come under Southgate.

Also, who else is there available?
User avatar
ludo22
Posts: 2751
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:06 pm
Location: on a dark desert highway,cool wind in my hair
Has liked: 13 likes
Total likes: 125 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by ludo22 »

Isn't the Southgate situation a little bit like our own situation with the manager at West Ham? i.e He's a good guy who's doing ok but you can't help get the feeling someone could do better?
User avatar
Hockley Hammer
Posts: 3814
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:54 pm
Location: Keeping calm and carrying on.
Has liked: 1 like
Total likes: 30 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Hockley Hammer »

ludo22 wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:56 am Isn't the Southgate situation a little bit like our own situation with the manager at West Ham? i.e He's a good guy who's doing ok but you can't help get the feeling someone could do better?
Completely, both not helped that when they come up against real quality opposition they don't have a genuine gamechanger in their side,

Fitness and good organisation are admirable qualities but at a high level it's moments of real class that make a difference.
Rozzop
Posts: 649
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:31 pm
Has liked: 5 likes
Total likes: 115 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Rozzop »

Not a fan personally, just a typical FA yes man.

We havent beaten one team in the last three tournaments that are better than us.

In game substitutions are poor. Its always like for like, Grealish for Foden, Sterling for Saka, winger for winger etc

Game management is poor. Can't see a game out against the top sides. Big part of that seems to be an English problem. We are too nice. You wont see us buying a free kick, time wasting, digging out the opposition etc all of the dark arts employed by every other team in the world, yes its scummy, but everyone does it

We have a good set of players, no worse than the top countries in the world, i don't see how a different manager could do any worse but due to the FA it will be another yes man type appointment
User avatar
westlondonhammer
Posts: 21544
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: Johannesburg
Has liked: 1042 likes
Total likes: 1319 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by westlondonhammer »

ludo22 wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:56 am Isn't the Southgate situation a little bit like our own situation with the manager at West Ham? i.e He's a good guy who's doing ok but you can't help get the feeling someone could do better?
Yes and no

Yes, they appear to both do well to a point...and that point in winning things

No, you could argue that the players England have available in relative terms to most of his opposition is stronger than what Moyes has ever had in relative terms to ours. Right now you could argue the team are underperforming...but the last 2 years?
User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 40659
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado
Has liked: 1887 likes
Total likes: 1599 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

westlondonhammer wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:19 pm Yes and no

Yes, they appear to both do well to a point...and that point in winning things

Right now you could argue the team are underperforming...but the last 2 years?
I wondered about that a while back and got told that Moyes is 10 times the manager that Southgate is.

they both suffer from the same problem imvho.

bottle it when they play the big boys by showing them too much respect. and are too late with (usually) subs.


however, what I can't take away from either is how they have both rebuilt the teams pretty much from the ground up and changed massively the mindset of what was needed to shake things up.

I'd stick with Southgate and twist with Moyes though.
User avatar
Shabu
Posts: 11859
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:38 am
Location: San Diego, CA
Has liked: 4148 likes
Total likes: 2006 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Shabu »

Diogenes wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:22 am I do not believe anyone is 'ignoring' those Wilko, or devaluing them (or the opposition). The 'facts' though speak for themselves. We (Southgate) is excellent at winning games against teams of a certain level, but regularly fails against better opposition in tournament football.
That is also true of Brazil for the last 20 years, Germany for the last 8, Spain for 12, Italy for 16 and, & this could change on Sunday, Argentina for 36 years.

There's only one winner in tournament football. EVERYONE else "fails against better opposition in tournament football".
User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 40659
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado
Has liked: 1887 likes
Total likes: 1599 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

Shabu wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:45 pm That is also true of Brazil for the last 20 years, Germany for the last 8, Spain for 12, Italy for 16 and, & this could change on Sunday, Argentina for 36 years.

There's only one winner in tournament football. EVERYONE else "fails against better opposition in tournament football".
I think the point maybe being made is the mindset approaching these games.

well it is with me............
User avatar
Shabu
Posts: 11859
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:38 am
Location: San Diego, CA
Has liked: 4148 likes
Total likes: 2006 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Shabu »

Cuenca 'ammer wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:48 pm I think the point maybe being made is the mindset approaching these games.

well it is with me............
Well he didn't make that clear :lol:

I also disagree. I'm 54 & this is the most successful England team period in my life. So what if we haven't won anything YET. Only one team can win. We're doing better than with every other England manager since 1966. I'm looking forward to the Euro's with Southgate at the helm as I think we'll at least make the quarter finals, probably the semis & maybe the final. That's so much better than things were at any other time. We finally have a team that's regularly competing at top level, not just going to tournaments to make up the numbers.

And best of all, it's an Englishman in charge of the English team.
User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 40659
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado
Has liked: 1887 likes
Total likes: 1599 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

I DID say I'd stick with Southgate...
User avatar
BondsoBob
Posts: 6948
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:05 pm
Location: Folkestone, Kent,
Has liked: 577 likes
Total likes: 523 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by BondsoBob »

If Sir Alf Ramsey (who didn't get his title until several years later) who was a world cup winner could get the sack for not qualifying for the '74 World Cup why should Southgate, who has won nothing be immune from criticism? And let's not forget the disastrous nations league fiasco including that 4-0 debacle against Hungary. That alone would have been enough to get some managers the sack.
User avatar
Puff Daddy
Gone for a Burton
Posts: 42184
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Westham Way
Has liked: 248 likes
Total likes: 1165 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Puff Daddy »

BondsoBob wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:16 am If Sir Alf Ramsey (who didn't get his title until several years later) who was a world cup winner could get the sack for not qualifying for the '74 World Cup why should Southgate, who has won nothing be immune from criticism? And let's not forget the disastrous nations league fiasco including that 4-0 debacle against Hungary. That alone would have been enough to get some managers the sack.
Good point and I don't recall Sir Alf getting any criticism at all for substituting Bobby Charlton, when leading West Germany 2-0 in the Mexico '70 Quarter Finals, when believing the game to be won and saving them for the semi's. Uwe Schon, West Germany's manager, immediately made a switch by bringing on their flying winger, Littbarski, who ran at our tiring defence and Alf handed the initiative to them and the rest, as they say is history
User avatar
Clacton-ammer
Sultan of Swing
Posts: 15767
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:28 am
Has liked: 343 likes
Total likes: 362 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Clacton-ammer »

GS appears very much marmite still. For me, I hope he takes us to the Euro's if he wants it, if he walks away to a new challenge then fair play to him. He has given me and many others England back, we were a shower before he turned up and he changed the whole ethos of the team.

I do though totally understand the argument regarding subs/tactics/mentality to get us over the line, is GS good enough for the final 1% to win something?? I get that argument and can't really argue against it until he does it.
User avatar
westlondonhammer
Posts: 21544
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:41 pm
Location: Johannesburg
Has liked: 1042 likes
Total likes: 1319 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by westlondonhammer »

Cuenca 'ammer wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:38 pm I'd stick with Southgate and twist with Moyes though.
Why?

I'm the opposite purely because we've had 3 seasons of relative success with Moyes... and while we've hit a bump this season (it could still turn around) and so it's not really time to assess this season as abject failure yet

Whereas with Southgate... it's been 3 tournaments of nearly misses (but ultimate failure) over a 6 - 7 year period.
User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 40659
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado
Has liked: 1887 likes
Total likes: 1599 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

westlondonhammer wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:35 pm Why?

I'm the opposite purely because we've had 3 seasons of relative success with Moyes... and while we've hit a bump this season (it could still turn around) and so it's not really time to assess this season as abject failure yet

Whereas with Southgate... it's been 3 tournaments of nearly misses (but ultimate failure) over a 6 - 7 year period.
and I can fully understand every one who feels the same as your good self.

Southgate gets less time with teams than Moyes. now of course on the other hand, he gets to pick and choose who he wants (obviously with the caveat that they're English) and isn't hampered by transfer fees etc.

my thing with Moyes is he appears to be so stubborn (generally) with how we are set up, and how and when he subs. like Southgate I feel both are reactive (most times) instead of reactive.

BUT.

the almost last game (maybe a couple back) when the crowd let Moyes know how they felt about his subs, he said "lot of managers out there" (paraphrased(.

that was his "cupping the ear" moment for me. I thought that he "might" have said, "everyone has their own opinion." or something along those lines.

when Southgate was quite rightly booed by the crowd after the Hungarian I believe it was, he went over applauded the crowd and said that he understood how they felt and that he realised that they could voice their opinion. again I paraphrased.

supporters of both West Ham and more so England, travel an awful lot to follow the team and are entitled to be entertained. and if they choose to let feelings be known, again they're entitled.

I understand many people don't understand booing their own players. I get that. when they play well, we cheer and applaud. how can you uncheer and unclap ? so fans boo.

now, they could be perfectly silent and that to me would be a greater show of displeasure. but I also realise that isn't going to happen. so people boo.

and at least to me, and I do understand that Southgate hasn't won the big one. very few teams do.

I won't go into the past world cup results but I'm guessing than other than Spain, France Germany, Brazil and Italy, very few other teams have won one.

the Euros ? Greece won one iirc, but they did it in such a negative manner. did they even win one game then ? didn't they all go to o.t. and pk's ? I could be wrong there. if we had won the Euros with their record and performance, 1 player up top iirc and the rest all behind the ball for 90 minutes, would an England manager get a "well we won a Euro I don't care how."

I'm not sure.

I digressed quite a bit, I'm famous for it !!!!!!!!!!!!

:crylol:
User avatar
jastons
Posts: 12510
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 7:23 am
Location: Here
Has liked: 882 likes
Total likes: 834 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by jastons »

Rozzop wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:41 pm We havent beaten one team in the last three tournaments that are better than us.
What does this mean?
User avatar
funky chicken
Posts: 9749
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:36 pm
Has liked: 319 likes
Total likes: 1237 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by funky chicken »

A lot of the papers today are saying Southgate will stay on until at least the Euros.
User avatar
S-H
Posts: 49083
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:05 am
Location: Kumb Inn
Has liked: 5727 likes
Total likes: 9642 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by S-H »

FA confirm he's staying.

Good for him, he probably deserves another crack at it.

Expectations will be low going into the next tournament though.
User avatar
hammers92
Posts: 12047
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:42 pm
Has liked: 319 likes
Total likes: 1757 likes

Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by hammers92 »

S-H wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:40 am FA confirm he's staying.

Good for him, he probably deserves another crack at it.

Expectations will be low going into the next tournament though.
I don’t think the FA would’ve wanted to make that decision either over the next month or so imo. There’s an appetite amongst many not to go foreign and a big lack of English coaches who could come in and do the job.
Post Reply