Gareth Southgate.

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Rozzop
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Rozzop »

jastons wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:17 pm What does this mean?
Exactly what it says. We dont beat teams that are better than us.

Come up against any nation that are just as good or better and its a loss

Can easily beat Wales and Costa Rica but will lose to Croatia and France
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sendô
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by sendô »

Today, when le French were getting merded by Argentina, Deschamps had the stones to make two changes before HT, and then two more including hooking Griezman to completely change how they were playing.

Can anyone imagine waistcoat doing the same? He’d have waited until the 60th minute and swapped Foden or Saka with Sterling.
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mcan
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by mcan »

S-H wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:40 am FA confirm he's staying.

Good for him, he probably deserves another crack at it.

Expectations will be low going into the next tournament though.
Classic cognative dissonance going on here.
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mcan
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by mcan »

Shabu wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:45 pm That is also true of Brazil for the last 20 years, Germany for the last 8, Spain for 12, Italy for 16 and, & this could change on Sunday, Argentina for 36 years.

There's only one winner in tournament football. EVERYONE else "fails against better opposition in tournament football".
Correct. And those nations would not tolerate keeping the same manager in charge after those failures.

You've debunked your own argument.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Denbighammer »

sendô wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:56 pm Today, when le French were getting merded by Argentina, Deschamps had the stones to make two changes before HT, and then two more including hooking Griezman to completely change how they were playing.

Can anyone imagine waistcoat doing the same? He’d have waited until the 60th minute and swapped Foden or Saka with Sterling.
It's hard to disagree with this.
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Puff Daddy
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Puff Daddy »

sendô wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:56 pm Today, when le French were getting merded by Argentina, Deschamps had the stones to make two changes before HT, and then two more including hooking Griezman to completely change how they were playing.

Can anyone imagine waistcoat doing the same? He’d have waited until the 60th minute and swapped Foden or Saka with Sterling.
Or bring on Grealish in the 98th minute
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Friend or Foé »

Whilst the England football team were predictably getting unfairly knocked out of another major tournament after once again putting in a heroic performance against an elite side but coming up short, at the very same time the England test cricket team with its new management and captaincy have had one of the most fantastic calendar years in memory. Playing a new ruthless, take no prisoners style of play, England have smashed the system to become the standout test team in world cricket. They have moved on from predictable formulaic pragmatism of Root and Silverwood and totally taken the bull by the horns.
They do say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and then expecting different results. Well that’s certainly what the Football team are going to do, but they probably should have been more dynamic and tried another path as demonstrated by their cricketing counterparts.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Puff Daddy »

Friend or Foé wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:45 am Whilst the England football team were predictably getting unfairly knocked out of another major tournament after once again putting in a heroic performance against an elite side but coming up short, at the very same time the England test cricket team with its new management and captaincy have had one of the most fantastic calendar years in memory. Playing a new ruthless, take no prisoners style of play, England have smashed the system to become the standout test team in world cricket. They have moved on from predictable formulaic pragmatism of Root and Silverwood and totally taken the bull by the horns.
They do say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and then expecting different results. Well that’s certainly what the Football team are going to do, but they probably should have been more dynamic and tried another path as demonstrated by their cricketing counterparts.

Can't argue with that. Love this swashbuckling approach . It probably won't last, but it is fun whilst it does
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MB
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by MB »

Friend or Foé wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:45 amWell that’s certainly what the Football team are going to do, but they probably should have been more dynamic and tried another path as demonstrated by their cricketing counterparts.
The England cricket team though is a great example of a team playing to its strengths and not being held back by convention. The fact it is dynamic is because that is the type of players we have. We also have some of the best players in the world which helps! “All” the coaches have done is let the players play rather than try and get them conform to what people think test cricket it.

The England football team does not have the same, relative, amount of talent nor an obvious “dynamic”system which could be deployed.

I’d argue Southgate is getting more than the sum of the parts rather than holding anyone back. There just isn’t the same level of talent throughout the England football team.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Friend or Foé »

MB wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:28 am The England cricket team though is a great example of a team playing to its strengths and not being held back by convention. The fact it is dynamic is because that is the type of players we have. We also have some of the best players in the world which helps! “All” the coaches have done is let the players play rather than try and get them conform to what people think test cricket it.

The England football team does not have the same, relative, amount of talent nor an obvious “dynamic”system which could be deployed.

I’d argue Southgate is getting more than the sum of the parts rather than holding anyone back. There just isn’t the same level of talent throughout the England football team.
Really ? I think the cricket team is at about the same level in talent and standing as the football team. Not as talented or as big as India / Australia or Brazil / France. Just sitting in that 2nd level of class. What Southgate has in terms of reserve is better than anything else at this world cup, but isn’t being utilised effectively at a time where being able to change up to 5 players per match should be more thought out and pre-planned rather than replacing like for like with 15-20 mins to go when going a goal down. Half the outfield players can be replaced and in knockout football when you are deadlocked they aren’t just sitting there waiting for injuries.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Westbourne Bill »

Seems ironic that with a squad with probably the strongest ever depth of quality especially in the forward positions, we have a manager least able to influence games mid-match.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Doc H Ball »

Excellent interview on TMS today.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by S-H »

Maguire.
Phillips
Henderson.

:clown:
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by dasnutnock3 »

Prat.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Metal Hammer »

S-H wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:02 pm Maguire.
Phillips
Henderson.

:clown:
Just awful. Thankfully there's no West Ham players so England can naff off!
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by SullySpecial »

Maguire and Henderson both starting. :clown:
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

Bellingham, Rice and Henderson across the middle, Maddison shoved onto the wing.

Bloody hell.
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by kenthammer »

SullySpecial wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 4:06 pm Maguire and Henderson both starting. :clown:
No Phillips?
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Ozza »

Absolutely shocking decision making re Henderson
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Re: Gareth Southgate.

Post by Wilko1304 »

I can see what the point with Henderson is.

International managers have tried to, so it seems, make it a bit more club-like when they meet up. There’s more continuity, consistency and more allowances for bad form. It makes sense, sometimes it’s more important what a player does in an England shirt than a club one. Maguire fits that, for Southgate.

With Henderson’s move, I suspect he’ll be phased out. But keeping him in the first squad helps him to justify dropping him. He doesn’t have to say “oh, he’s moved to a lesser league” because he can drop him over time and talk about impact of the lesser intensity. Rather than saying it’s lesser just based on opinion, he can say he’s seen the drop off over time. This way, a senior and important figure can be dropped in a way that is much more harmonious. He may even have used this camp to talk to Henderson.

It’s interesting to note that he hasn’t picked Sterling this squad. He took a while to drop him when off form, and can now claim they were successful without him so he has to prove his form over time to get back in. Should he be in this squad on form? Absolutely. But now Southgate’s shown his squad that he’s looking bigger picture than 4 games, and that he will stick by players that do well for him, which they did in the last round of games (I think).

As for the game against Ukraine, he got it wrong, but it’s a lie to pretend this is the usual level England play at. It isn’t, this was a bad game. I’d suggest he was too conservative, and that Kane+Maddison+Bellingham won’t work. Too many who want the same space. Kane drops deep, he needs runners wide and a man bombing on. Give Bellingham that central freedom to drive on, and a Rashford, Grealish or Sterling driving behind, too.
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