Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by TommyHammer » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:49 pm

Following England has never appealed to me, probably more due to the fact that i'm just so much more attached to West Ham than I am to England and find it hard to have the same level of attachment if I don't go to games. Last night made me jealous that I couldn't be there, but when I saw the scenes of blokes lumping into each other on the concourse it made me realise why it doesn't appeal to me. West Ham fans haven't been perfect throughout history but England tends to attract a proportion of individuals who you just know have only been to a handful of football games in their lives and just turn up to act like idiots.

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Re: Match #51 THE FINAL England v Italy. (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by TommyHammer » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:54 pm

MB wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:54 am
It is easy to criticise Kane and the tactics but at the same time
Kane is one of the best strikers in world football without a doubt and anyone saying otherwise is just being biased because he plays for Spurs. However, I do get the feeling that when at the final hurdle he goes missing. He's been involved in four finals for club and country in his career, and I genuinely can't think of one where he was unreal.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Rozzop » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:03 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:03 pm
Our squad is not better than theirs. To suggest so is hilarious or a complete lack of knowledge of European football.

Donnarumma one of the best keepers in the world at age 22.
Spinazzola the player of the tournament before his injury.
Chiellini and Bonucci amongst the best central defenders in the world for the last decade
Jorginho and Veratti both world class central midfielders.
Immobile has 200 goals in the last 5 seasons

Not a bad spine. Even the subs have pedigree. Locatelli, Belotti, Beradi, Emerson, etc are all decent players, just as good as ours.

None of our players are the star man for their club apart from Kane and arguably Rice.

Just because we don't see the likes of Barella or Chiesa every week doesn't mean they are of lesser ability to Rashford or Saka.

This is what grates me the most about international football and the biased media. The England team is no doubt decent but overhyped.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Morocco Mole » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:06 pm

Grealish, Sancho, Foden. 300 million quid on the bench in just those three players. Italy would kill for a squad as good as ours.

In fact this is one of the more ordinary Italian squads I’ve seen in the last 30 or 40 years. Difference is Mancini would get a top six job in the Premier League tomorrow. Would Southgate?
Last edited by Morocco Mole on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by DrVenk » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:09 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:06 pm
Grealish, Sancho, Foden. 300 million quid on the bench in just those three players. Italy would kill for a squad as good as ours.
A mistrust of technical players? That's Gonzo's hypothesis...



I think he's right.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Morocco Mole » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:13 pm

100% right. It goes back to the 70s. Apart from the odd exception (Venables/Gazza), we’ve never learned.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by DrVenk » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:16 pm

Poor old Le Tissier. Never got a look in.

But he did bonk Marilyn from Home and Away, so swings and roundabouts.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by TheHandOfDog » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:20 pm

I think we are learning...WC semi into a Euro Final. We are progressing, we can talk about great players that we have all day but Italy beat some great sides to get to the final and were a better team. And we took that team to penalties, we scored in open play to their corner.

Great progress and we are still learning, usually we go out against Germany in the first knock out game, this year we are in our first final for 55 years. Yes Southgate has his negatives, I think we sat too deep personally and invited good, technical players onto us, still, it took a corner to take us to ET.

I won't hear any negatives about England right now(The football team)because frankly what happened this tournament is a once in a lifetime for me and anyone aged 55 or below.
As Martin Tyler once said, DRINK IT IN, I SWEAR U WILL NEVER SEE ANYTHING LIKE THIS AGAIN'

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Het-Field » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:21 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:06 pm
Grealish, Sancho, Foden. 300 million quid on the bench in just those three players. Italy would kill for a squad as good as ours.

In fact this is one of the more ordinary Italian squads I’ve seen in the last 30 or 40 years. Difference is Mancini would get a top six job in the Premier League tomorrow. Would Southgate?
I was stunned at how ordinary Grealish looked at times, and I cant help but feel his notional value has been helped by an excitable media, the YouTube culture which can splice hundreds of moments of brilliance and turn a player (from a reputation point of view) into a an unstoppable, world class player. Against Denmark, I dont believe he played sensibly as he kept trying to run through and around the red wall, without perhaps looking for the quicker ball, or the more incisive cross or pass. I dont believe he figured much in the game yesterday. In fact, apart from his (admittedly key) intervention in the Germany game, I often felt he looked a little lost, and a man whose value has been a product of talking heads.

Foden, I think has much greater potential. But its potential. I though he looked sharp against Scotland, but there is a way to go with him yet, until he is the finished article.

I think that there was just a bit of a discrepancy in terms of experience with the England team, perhaps most underscored by the penalties yesterday.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Happyhammer52 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:25 pm

Rozzop wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:03 pm
This is what grates me the most about international football and the biased media. The England team is no doubt decent but overhyped.
Superb post :thup:

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Morocco Mole » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm

Grealish will go to Man City and Southgate will pick him for the very next England game. Mark my words.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Het-Field » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:28 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm
Grealish will go to Man City and Southgate will pick him for the very next England game. Mark my words.
He might do? But I doubt it would be because of who he is playing for.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by fmgod » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:30 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm
Grealish will go to Man City and Southgate will pick him for the very next England game. Mark my words.
He'll be beyond out his depth there, the hyperbole around Grealish is laughable, the biggest bits of the tournament for me were

Foden is still ultra raw and can go either way
Grealish is beyond hype for no real reason
Saka bless him isn't England class and is mid-table type player

Our depth isn't as good as we think it is

Sancho has been brillant for Dortmund but not done much in an England squad
Welbeck lol lol

We give it all the hype but we're not as deep as we want to think we are, at full back we are beyond belief

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Rozzop » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:06 pm
Grealish, Sancho, Foden. 300 million quid on the bench in just those three players. Italy would kill for a squad as good as ours.

In fact this is one of the more ordinary Italian squads I’ve seen in the last 30 or 40 years. Difference is Mancini would get a top six job in the Premier League tomorrow. Would Southgate?
Yet Frederico Chiesa outshone them all. 50 million euros signing for Juventus. One of the biggest teams in Europe.

Italian football isn't what it was but they are still huge clubs in world football. The Premier league isn't all that.

I'm not digging out Sterling but would he sign for Juventus? Inter Milan? Likewise Grealish. Would Mount be a star for AC Milan?

Those Italian players are just as good as ours.

Just because our players have the English tax doesn't mean they are better.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Morocco Mole » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm

Grealish plays a game that Southgate and his ilk don’t understand. But Guardiola wants him and De Bruyne says he’s the best player in England. Still what do they know?

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by fmgod » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:42 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm
Grealish plays a game that Southgate and his ilk don’t understand. But Guardiola wants him and De Bruyne says he’s the best player in England. Still what do they know?
He also seemed in love with Nathan Redmond, I wouldn't read too much into that

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by fmgod » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:44 pm

Rozzop wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm
Yet Frederico Chiesa outshone them all. 50 million euros signing for Juventus. One of the biggest teams in Europe.

Italian football isn't what it was but they are still huge clubs in world football. The Premier league isn't all that.

I'm not digging out Sterling but would he sign for Juventus? Inter Milan? Likewise Grealish. Would Mount be a star for AC Milan?

Those Italian players are just as good as ours.

Just because our players have the English tax doesn't mean they are better.
It's obvious you get football outside the bubble :newthumb:

I would caveat though and say, when you look at it

Berradi Sassulo
Chiesa has been on loan to Fiorentina
Belloti Torino

Emerson LWB third choice for Chelsea


These aren't massive clubs above, the thing is Mancini got them playing as a team, in a system, it almost didn't matter how good or not each player was, they had a plan

The bit I find hard to swallow it was almost a repeat of the Pirlo games and we let Veraitti play his game, we should've stopped Verraiti at all costs, he was the key the whole game, the pivot, giving, taking, we just never blocked, should've man marked him pretty much

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Morocco Mole » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:49 pm

Rozzop wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm
I'm not digging out Sterling but would he sign for Juventus? Inter Milan? Likewise Grealish. Would Mount be a star for AC Milan?
No idea whether they would want to play in Italy or not but all of those are certainly good enough.

If you picked a combined eleven from the two squads there wouldn’t be too many Italians in it. The keeper perhaps, centre halves are good at what they do sure, …..maybe Veratti? But Southgate wouldn’t pick a playmaker and apparantly he’s the messiah so who knows? Not dissing Italy as a footballing nation - they’ve had the edge over us for years and I always thought they’d have to much nous for us yesterday but man for man we have more talented squad, there’s no doubt about that in my mind.
Last edited by Morocco Mole on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by fmgod » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:50 pm

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:49 pm
No idea whether they would want to play in Italy or not but all of those are certainly good enough.

If you picked a combined eleven from the two squads there wouldn’t be too many Italians in it. The keeper perhaps, centre halves are good at what they do sure, …..maybe Veratti? Not dissing Italy as a footballing nation - they’ve had the edge over us for years and I always thought they’d have to much nous for us yesterday but man for man we have more talented squad, there’s no doubt about that in my mind.
Donnarumma
Walker Bonucci Chellini Spinzolla
Veratti Jorginho Henderson
Sancho Kane Sterling

Is what the team would be on paper taking out performance etc

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Re: Match #51: THE FINAL England 1-1 (P) Italy (8pm, Sunday 11th July)

Post by Morocco Mole » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:58 pm

Jorginho and Henderson no chance.

Spinazzola has been no better than Shaw. Bonucci and Chiellini are good at what they do but it’s very ‘Italian’ as a pair. I’d want at least one ball player that can bring it out.

Donarruma
Walker Chiellini Maguire Shaw
Rice Veratti
Foden Grealish Sterling
Kane

Manager: Mancini :)

And the bench would be all England.
Squad-wise there’s really no comparison.

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