Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

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Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by Samba » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:02 pm

Imo, yes to both.
The 'mighty' Italy who beat Belgium & Spain (also on pens), yet who couldn't beat us in 120 minutes.
Once it went to penalties it was reduced to just a lottery AND we saved two of theirs.
I'm happy for Southgate to stay in the job for Qatar but seriously can't help thinking that that defeat last night, was pretty much on him.
We may never have a better chance of winning a cup final.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:36 pm

I'm trying to think of an answer to this one for you , Samba [ seeing as no one else has bothered their arse ] but I honestly can't think of one .


I'm guessing you're still in post defeat shock and you're rambling .


Have a nice hot drink of sugary tea .


And remember this - it's only a game of football , England winning the Euros wouldn't have changed your life , it wouldn't have made you any better looking , it wouldn't have brought Priti Patel to your door .

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by Samba » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:11 pm

The Old Man of Storr wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:36 pm
I'm trying to think of an answer to this one for you , Samba [ seeing as no one else has bothered their arse ] but I honestly can't think of one .


I'm guessing you're still in post defeat shock and you're rambling .
:D

Have a nice hot drink of sugary tea .


And remember this - it's only a game of football , England winning the Euros wouldn't have changed your life , it wouldn't have made you any better looking , it wouldn't have brought Priti Patel to your door .
Drat..
You're spot on, of course. If we had won, it wouldn't have made any difference to any of our lives. Well, outside of the team or squad's lives..
The 'feelgood' factor would have lasted a little longer but ultimately would have ended up being tomorrow or the next day's fish & chip paper (if that even happens with newspaper, anymore).
Me winning a lottery jackpot would change my life (& then, only up to a point) but the England football team winning a trophy? It actually changes nothing for any of us.
I mean, we wouldn't have kept mentioning it to you for the rest of your life.. :arry:
Probably only up until we win the World Cup (again), next year.. :winker:

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by OFT » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:27 pm

Samba wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:11 pm
Drat..
You're spot on, of course. If we had won, it wouldn't have made any difference to any of our lives. Well, outside of the team or squad's lives..
The 'feelgood' factor would have lasted a little longer but ultimately would have ended up being tomorrow or the next day's fish & chip paper (if that even happens with newspaper, anymore).
Exactly :newthumb:

It's not yer' actual 'ammers is it Samba.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by CarltonColesLeftFoot » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:33 pm

Could we have we won? Yes of course

Should we have won? We're not entitled to win any game, we definitely had chances to win but football is a game played by two sides.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by Samba » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:42 pm

OFT wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:27 pm
Exactly :newthumb:

It's not yer' actual 'ammers is it Samba.
No, last night wasn't nearly as bad as 2006..

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by [HH] » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:07 am

If I could rewind time, it'd be to the penalty shoot out. Rashfords penalty goes in, I reckon we win. Any further back than that, and Italy would do us in ET.

Watched WC18 highlights earlier. Brozovic, Modric and Rakitic turned the screw as the game went on, and we went into a shell.

Verrati, Jorghino and Barella did the same. It was almost a carbon copy scenario. Against better teams with the press, Rice, Philips and Mount as a collective trio aren't a creative that can dictate a tempo. In the end we ended up playing direct, shanking clearances and inviting more pressure. I really hope the composure of Bellingham will bring that to our midfield as he develops.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by Samba » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:26 am

CarltonColesLeftFoot wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:33 pm
Could we have we won? Yes of course

Should we have won? We're not entitled to win any game, we definitely had chances to win but football is a game played by two sides.
It's only in hindsight that I say we should have won.
When the team was announced, I was a bit nonplussed seeing Mount as one of our front three. I'm really not sure that was wise by Southgate.
We shocked them (& probably ourselves) with the very early goal & then didn't capitalise on it. We contained them quite well but the warning signs were there as the first half wore on.
Right, half time, time for one or two clever substitutions by Southgate, to stop them feeling so comfortable..
Except he didn't make any..
And so the second half continued the pressure of the first half. Even then we were holding them until they scored one of the stupidest, sloppiest goals I could have imagined. You wouldn't have minded so much if it had been a world class goal, instead of being, A Major F*ck-Up..
Pisspoor goal to concede, imo.
And then 3 minutes later (70mins), he makes our first sub.
Wrong subs at the wrong time & the wrong players picked for the penalties.
Pleased with Saka coming on but for Trippier? Would have preferred Mount coming off.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by woodford » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:14 am

[HH] wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:07 am
If I could rewind time, it'd be to the penalty shoot out. Rashfords penalty goes in, I reckon we win. Any further back than that, and Italy would do us in ET.
:smiler: I keep reading on here about Rashford penalty going in and we'd have won. Isn't that kind of the point about a penalty shoot out?

A little like 'if your auntie had b*llocks' sort of argument

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by Jumby » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:20 am

Definitely could have won, just like any team in a final could. Should have won? If I'd only seen the first 25 minutes to half an hour I'd have said yes but a predominantly defensive team absolutely dominated proceedings for most of the next 60 minutes and extra time. It's not a boxing match though and had that Phillips effort gone in or England shown a bit more going forward they definitely could have won. Belgium shown that if you put it on the Italians you can create chances, Wales did it a couple of times and Bale should have scored, the first quarter of the game shown that but slowly England got pegged back and never found a way out, something which got worse as the subs came on.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by DrVenk » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:31 am

Could of? Definitely.

Should of? Probably.

I mean, we were 1-0 up at half-time. 45mins away from success.

Alas, we blew it. Doesn't mean Southgate is X, Y, Z or anything. Doesn't mean 'failure'. It doesn't mean anything other than what it was...on the cusp of glory and we blew it.

We should take the positives, for there are many, but also remember the sting of defeat. I do believe we're good enough to win these damn things.

Onwards to Qatar.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by Long Shot » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:49 am

Yep, for both. A 100% certain belief of winning from the manager and our players backing themselves in the heat of battle and we could/ should have had it in 90 mins imo.

I think the pain of defeat was real for the whole Eng set up and hopefully it will help all parties become more warrior like for Qatar

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:39 pm

That's the thing about getting through to a Final , you can never be closer to winning a Trophy - I went to bed at 55 minutes and you were winning 1-0 and had just won a corner , I honestly thought it was just a matter of seeing the game out then at 7 am the following day [ yesterday ] I found out you'd lost on penalties - it's a cruel way to lose and in my opinion a poor way to win - not quite a hollow victory but close as . Personally I'd change the rules but The Mob enjoy their drama and what The Mob want The Mob get .

At least you can take comfort that you were second best , the best of the rest .

.........................................................................................................


But let's say you had won .

How would it have affected you as an individual or England as a whole , what difference would it have made ?

How would it have made the rest of the British Isles feel , these other smaller countries that make up the island known as Great Britain , would it have brought us closer together or yet further apart - every time one of the home nations goes further than the others , in this case England , in 2016 Wales the question the media always asks is ' Will you be supporting ' X ' when they play ' Y ' and of course in our heart of hearts the answer is always ' No ' - and there's a reason for that and I believe it lies in your genes , in your DNA , your Family . If I'm being perfectly honest I don't get 100% satisfaction when Wales win at football or at rugby because the Millennium Stadium and most of the players that make up the respective teams come from the South of Wales where I have zero connection to .

How would you feel if it were a Great Britain team representing us at the Euros or the World Cup ?

Silly question - I know what the answer will be .


But until that happens we'll always be 3 very small nations and one bigger nation vying for some type of one upmanship over each other .

Good luck at the World Cup . :newthumb:

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by DasNutNock2 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:46 pm

To lose a final after going a goal up in 2 minutes is pretty tragic, really. GS got the tactics wrong and didn’t make the right decisions, but stuff like that happens, and it’s not the end of the world.

Losing to the Scouse was a far more horrifying experience. We deserved it far more than they did, and it was only Carragher’s complete contempt for sporting fair play that meant we lost. That he now tries to portray Scaloni as the one responsible for his reprehensible behaviour speaks volumes about him as a man.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by DasNutNock2 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:47 pm

If we had won, the whole summer would be a different experience. We’d be chatting to friends and strangers about the game, where we watched it, how we celebrated - indelible memories of a fantastic summer would have been made. Instead, we’re all trying to forget and move on.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by S-H » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:00 pm

What's the point in investing time, money and emotion into football, if winning something doesn't add to your life, it might not change your life financially or improve, health or relationships, but life is about creating moments, and those are the moments as football fans we live for, it's why we suffer the constant heartach, we dust ourselves down in the hope that next time will be different.

England winning the Euros would have been one of the greatest moments of my life, one that I would take to the grave, likewise if West Ham ever win a trophy.

Two days on from the loss, and I still feel an emptiness, I'm still hurting, because I know we could and should have won it.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by DasNutNock2 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:05 pm

"How would you feel if it were a Great Britain team representing us at the Euros or the World Cup ?"

If it meant us winning a title, I'd be delighted. TBH, I'm not sure we'd have a significantly better chance as a combined side right now, but you never know.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by sutts07 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:14 pm

Yes to both.

We started so well and had them massively on the back foot. Trippier was getting in behind them for fun and Shaw was also getting a lot of the ball in great positions. Had we been a little more cutthroat / ruthless / clinical we could have been two or three up by half time and had the game all but won.

Mancini switched to a back three in the second half with a middle four to close out the space we were finding and it took us far too long to work it out how to counter them. We should have switched to a back four a lot sooner, sent Saka on to run at their old boys and given it a real go in the 90mins. Grealish for Mount could have happened a lot sooner also. Rice and Phillips were bossing the middle of the park.

Very proud of the team for doing what they did to get into that position, but also very disappointed in them for not seeing it through. We were one up, at home in a major final with just 45 to play. We had bossed the game up until that point too. If it was Spurs we'd all be humiliating them and saying how 'Spursey' it was to blow it.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by sutts07 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:16 pm

DasNutNock2 wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:05 pm
"How would you feel if it were a Great Britain team representing us at the Euros or the World Cup ?"

If it meant us winning a title, I'd be delighted. TBH, I'm not sure we'd have a significantly better chance as a combined side right now, but you never know.
In all honesty, and with all due respect... who would actually get in the side?

Bale is the only one that jumps out, but looking at his season v someone like Grealish... hard to say that at this current time he'd get in the team.

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Re: Could or should we have won the Euro 20/21 final?

Post by S-H » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:17 pm

DasNutNock2 wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:05 pm
"How would you feel if it were a Great Britain team representing us at the Euros or the World Cup ?"

If it meant us winning a title, I'd be delighted. TBH, I'm not sure we'd have a significantly better chance as a combined side right now, but you never know.
A Great Britain team will still be made up of a 1-11 of English players though.

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