Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

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prophet:marginal
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Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by prophet:marginal » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:06 pm

So, we're adding in two or three major sporting powers from South America, but, by and large, Qatar 2022 will be fought out by mostly the same teams from Europe who have just competed in the one-year-delayed Euros.

Is there anything glaring and obvious that Southgate could/should be doing so as to go that one stage further and actually lift the thing? I can see at least 5 players - in Sancho, Foden, Bellingham, Saka and Rice - who are likely to benefit from either more pitch time in European and domestic competition, such that, if they remain in Southgate's plans, they will perform better next time around.

The areas of weakness, however, appear to be back up goalkeeper - an almost unnoticed reality of the last competition is that we would have had to rely on a relegated keeper, if JP had been injured and a somewhat rigid attacking system that must and shall involve a 'fit' Harry Kane and the vital 'willing' runners needed to create enough trouble for specialist defenders lined up against us.

Whilst I am not for a moment predicting yet another run to a semi-final, or beyond, is it fair to wonder whether we will be as successful as last time (and get to the business end), or might we just as easily lapse and 'do a Belgium' and fail to live up to our potential? And, if we can get to that point, what do we need to do to make a better guarantee of success?

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by hammers92 » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:47 pm

Two immediate things for me. One is integrating Bellingham into the side, I see him as a Pogba type player with the ability to travel with the ball and get the side up to the pitch, we still lack that imo in the middle of midfield.

The second is a proper plan B for Kane if he's injured or it's not working on the pitch. I don't really know what that looks like at this moment in time but I think it's worth Southgate exploring a couple of options.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by SullySpecial » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:40 pm

I think we need a keeper upgrade too.

And better fans.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Het-Field » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:54 pm

18 months is a long time but some of the press points will be

1.If and when Henderson claims the Number 1 at Manchester United, Pickford will have natural competition, and for the first time for some time. If Henderson is playing 50 games a season, positioning higher and playing more, well, there will be a choice to be made.

2.Attacking wise, the likes of Mason Greenwood, Tammy Abraham, Harvey Barnes will all potentially make a claim depending on how their careers progress. The likes of James Maddison are undoubtedly not forgotten men yet

3.Defensively, if the likes of Tomori excel on the continent, they will be involved.

4.There will undoubtedly be break out players in the mean-time who will come via the championship, or indeed lads who might make the grade in the PL. I really think in our case Jarrod Bowen might make a solid case there.

5.Ingratiating Sancho, Foden, Mount, Bellingham and Grealish will be important.

6.Tactically wise, as people say, ensuring less reliance on Kane.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Rozzop » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:03 pm

They will have no chance playing in the scorching desert employing backs to the walls tactics.

The players will be knackered after two games.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by prophet:marginal » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:20 pm

Het-Field wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:54 pm

4.There will undoubtedly be break out players in the mean-time who will come via the championship, or indeed lads who might make the grade in the PL. I really think in our case Jarrod Bowen might make a solid case there.
Will be interested, too, to watch the next steps Watkins at Villa takes in his career.

Some interesting points, Het.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Puff Daddy » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:43 pm

A very open tournament, in which we should do well. The European nations will all be familiar to us and since there is little time for major re-builds between now and this competition, there is nothing from Europe to scare us. Belgium are aging, France could combust, Netherlands might improve, Italy, will largely have the same team, Spain, don't have a reliable enough goal scorer and you could say much the same about all the others. Brazil, will always be Brazil, but they still rely too much on Neymar and Richarlison up front and Argentina, still heavily reliant upon the mercurial, Lionel Messi. There is still just about enough time for another nation to unearth a gem. The Big worry might be Germany. They will break up that Euro 20/21 team with new faces, but they still have a little bit of time to hit upon a differ ent formula and introduce some new, young talent. The Big question is, will be enough time?

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 pm

Only 13 Eurooean teams qualify vs 24 at the Euros so there will be a few high profile casualties in qualification

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by prophet:marginal » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:15 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 pm
Only 13 Eurooean teams qualify vs 24 at the Euros so there will be a few high profile casualties in qualification
Interesting.

So that's ten table-toppers and only 3 best second-placed teams.

Here's the present state of play - next games 01.09.21

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by DrVenk » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:46 am

It's the same challenge as England has always faced - when confronted with top ranking nations, can we compete effectively?

I maintain we have an inferiority complex which leads us to safety first tactics and a tendency to overlook more technical players. I believed this before Euro 2020 btw so not a reaction to the last tournament but a pattern across major tournaments.

Until we confront this, the past is prologue and we will continue to be also runs.

In terms of putting this into practice, we need to learn how to dominate possession. And we are capable. Stones and Maguire are very comfortable on the ball. Kane and Sterling play for teams who like to dominate games. We have fullbacks who are good on the ball (Walker aside). We have an abundance of technically gifted attacking midfielders.

To achieve a more possession based approach, the balance in CM needs to change. Rice/Philips served us really well for this tournament. But progress necessitates a change here. I thought before Euro 2020 what we were lacking was a Scholes or Lampard type player in CM - really intelligent on the ball and capable of supporting the front lads. Imagine a Rice/Scholes CM. Perfect balance if you ask me. I am not sure Bellingham is the answer here just yet. He's another athletic box to box player rather than an intelligent grafter. And this is where I hit a stumbling block - I think we might be lacking that CM that can hold a possession based system together.

I just want England to be more proactive rather than reactive. To tinker less to counteract the opposition and to set our stall out in a way that believes in the talent we have.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by The Green Man » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:43 pm

I'd love to see Foden played in a CM role, he played predominantly as a LW for City this season but the season before showed he was more than capable as a CM, Maddison is another who I'd like to see in Qatar. I think we'd absolutely dominate with the below line up.


----Kane------Watkins---
-----------------------------
Grealish---------Maddison
----------Foden-----------
-----------------------------
-----------Rice------------
Shaw--------------Walker
-----Maguire--Stones----
----------------------------
----------Pickford--------

Like others have said, if we want to win tournaments we can try and keep it tight but eventually fall short against the very top teams or go out and impose ourselves, and then shut up shop if we need to, to close out games.

The above would give most teams kittens as we'd be able to press ridiculously high up while keeping our back 4 fairly defensive and Grealish, Maddison and Foden are excellent at holding on to the ball, Kane can also drop deep to link up the play while Watkins can run the channels. Appreciate Maddison had a poor season by his standards (still got over 10 goals and assists!) but watching these Euros he'll be more determined to be in the WC squad so I can see him having a very good season. If not, Sancho/Sterling/Saka can take this spot.

We still have the Phillips/Rice double pivot to go back to now but I feel like Rice is more than strong enough to screen the back four and also to break up the play high in the pitch like Spain did against Italy with Busquets playing this role.

The only reason Spain didn't put Italy to the sword in the first half was because they lacked a Kane, they had two ABSOLUTE sitters against Italy and didn't get a shot away either time. They also had 71% possession and over double the shots..!

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by monkeyhanger » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:10 pm

Maybe play all our games at Wembley instead of only 6 out of 7 ?

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Burnley Hammer » Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:28 pm

Rozzop wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:03 pm
They will have no chance playing in the scorching desert employing backs to the walls tactics.

The players will be knackered after two games.
This is the key thing for me. England play an energetic game, pressing throughout, and covering a lot of ground. I think we're going to struggle with that in the heat and humidity of Qatar.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by vietnammer » Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:01 pm

Kind of obvious fact that I missed till I read it, but Qatar in the winter months is not nearly as hot as Brazil in the summer. Max in Qatar is reported at circa 32 deg, Brazil max can be over 40. Guess 32 is still not great for playing footy. Enclosed stadiums make a diff?

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by smuts » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:32 pm

Usual temperatures in Qatar in winter range from 18 to 24 degrees.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Samba » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:35 pm

vietnammer wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:01 pm
Kind of obvious fact that I missed till I read it, but Qatar in the winter months is not nearly as hot as Brazil in the summer. Max in Qatar is reported at circa 32 deg, Brazil max can be over 40. Guess 32 is still not great for playing footy. Enclosed stadiums make a diff?
Could be like a very good English summer in Qatar. I think there's going to be air/con in all the stadiums, even the ones that won't be fully enclosed.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by prophet:marginal » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:28 am

So, let’s say Alexander-Arnold is, by Qatar, in the squad. Does that one change/addition amount to much?

I wonder what effect he’d have had last weekend if we could have played him ahead of Walker.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Jon » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:40 am

Surely we won’t attend? Despicable country.

At least 6,500 South Asian migrant workers died in Qatar from 2011-2020, the Guardian reported Tuesday, citing government data from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Qatar.

-breitbart 24-2-21.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by prophet:marginal » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:01 pm

Jon wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:40 am
Surely we won’t attend? Despicable country.

At least 6,500 South Asian migrant workers died in Qatar from 2011-2020, the Guardian reported Tuesday, citing government data from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Qatar.

-breitbart 24-2-21.
Jon, we all know that those people's deaths won't have any effect whatsoever on whether the competition will take place.

People, after all have got money to make.

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Re: Qatar 2022: Do It Better?

Post by Jumby » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:01 pm

prophet:marginal wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:28 am
So, let’s say Alexander-Arnold is, by Qatar, in the squad. Does that one change/addition amount to much?

I wonder what effect he’d have had last weekend if we could have played him ahead of Walker.
I don't think he's as good as Walker, Trippier or James right now and I don't think Southgate thought he was either.

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