West Ham Utd 1-2 Manchester Utd (19/09/21)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:32 pm

Not sure about that.

He needed to start falling to allow his first leg to lightly touch KZ's knee/ upper shin.

The dragging leg touches nothing really.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Billy Hunt » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:33 pm

sutts07 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:21 pm
Ironically, if he had not dived, he would no doubt have been given a penalty as Zouma would have made contact had he not dived over him.
Very true, and he should be kicking himself at that. He won't of course, he will just pretend to do so and scream whilst falling over without any contact

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Crossd_Hammrs » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:49 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:28 pm
As for the Soucek one, like the MOTD 2 panel said, that is a mystery why it wasn't given and even more of a mystery the foul was given the other way. If the ref had just thought it was six of one half a dozen of another and played on then Yarmo was in a very good position to score
At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist... we had quite a good spell of attacking possession midway through the second half, when the score was still 1-1, that came to an end when Varane inexplicably leapt three feet in the air and collapsed holding his shins as Bowen nicked the ball from in front of him. Bowen looked confused at the decision, and there didn't look to be any contact in the replay, Bowen's foot clearly planted in grass. The bizarre freekick ended that spell and also that phase of the match. It gave Man Utd's defence a brief break, and the team to reorganise themselves.
But it didn't take a lot for Atkinson to give Man Utd's defence a break in that spell - I just rewatched it as I wanted to see the Soucek incident and Varane incidents - in that 15 minute spell Man Utd took a freekick for offside (should have been 10-15 yards inside their half) from in our half! Wan Bisaka could have had a couple of yellows but instead didn't even conced a freekick. The only decision we got in that whole period was Pogba blocking Zouma.

I also noticed, that Vlasic played much better than I had thought. He ran back well to cover at left back. At one point he carried the ball out from the edge of our box, played a one-two to his right, then tried the same to Benrahma to his left, who instead played out wide to Cresswell. When Benrahma got it back again, he looked up, Vlasic had held his run and pointed for him to slide the ball through - clean through on goal, but instead Benny fired either a shot or an over-powered cross to the three offside players on the other side of the box. It's hard to tell which it was as it hit McTominay in the head about five yards in front of him.

Benrahma may have scored the goal, but in those fifteen mins I rewatched he looked like the player he was last season - poor, selfish decisions, looking for glory from long range shots when there were several options.
He looked a bit reluctant to work out of possession too, which leaves me of the opinion Moyes substituted the wrong player at the end of that spell - Benrahma, not Vlasic, should have gone off for Yarmolenko.

And rewatching those fifteen minutes, Bowen put in a real shift and was a handful, but ultimately not quite strong enough to make it count, and Atkinson wasn't going to give him anything.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Billydinho » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:52 pm

Crossd_Hammrs wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:49 pm
At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist... we had quite a good spell of attacking possession midway through the second half, when the score was still 1-1, that came to an end when Varane inexplicably leapt three feet in the air and collapsed holding his shins as Bowen nicked the ball from in front of him. Bowen looked confused at the decision, and there didn't look to be any contact in the replay, Bowen's foot clearly planted in grass. The bizarre freekick ended that spell and also that phase of the match. It gave Man Utd's defence a brief break, and the team to reorganise themselves.
Yep, that Bowen incident was right in front of me and was never a foul in a million years. Ref was crooked, it's unbelievable Man United fans think he stitched them up!

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Hockley Hammer » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:12 pm

sutts07 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:21 pm
Ironically, if he had not dived, he would no doubt have been given a penalty as Zouma would have made contact had he not dived over him.
With the benefit of hindsight wouldn't it be funny if the defender saw that leg trailing and pulled out the tackle and Ronaldo dives to the ground with nobody anywhere near him. Wonder if that would get any discussion by the 'experts'.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Crossd_Hammrs » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:26 pm

Hockley Hammer wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:12 pm
With the benefit of hindsight wouldn't it be funny if the defender saw that leg trailing and pulled out the tackle and Ronaldo dives to the ground with nobody anywhere near him. Wonder if that would get any discussion by the 'experts'.
He made three penalty appeals in the second half - between the two well-discussed ones, he threw himself to the ground about two seconds after a slight brush against a stationary Ogbonna. He sat there with his arms raised glowering at the ref. The commentator mentioned it, everyone else seems to have selectively overlooked it.

EDIT
As the other C_H says below, there was a tug from Cresswell; a tug that made him fall head first in the opposite direction :?
Last edited by Crossd_Hammrs on Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:32 pm

it was mentioned on MOTD2
Their opinion (which I agree with), was that the Coufal one was a penalty and the other two (Cresswell holding his arm and Zouma) were not

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Billydinho » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:35 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:32 pm
it was mentioned on MOTD2
Their opinion (which I agree with), was that the Coufal one was a penalty and the other two (Cresswell holding his arm and Zouma) were not
He ran into Coufal, deliberately. It was Jamie Vardy-esque and we happily call him a c*nt for it.

Just because everyone wants to w*nk over Ronaldo it doesn't make him any less of a cheating scumbag. He and that rat faced pr*ck Fernandes were diving all over the place.

Utterly embarrassing.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Eggchaser » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:21 pm

Billydinho wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:35 pm
He ran into Coufal, deliberately. It was Jamie Vardy-esque and we happily call him a c*nt for it.

Just because everyone wants to w*nk over Ronaldo it doesn't make him any less of a cheating scumbag. He and that rat faced pr*ck Fernandes were diving all over the place.

Utterly embarrassing.
Absolutely spot on Billy, I said it to the other half he actually changes direction, only slightly, but he does to run into Coufal.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by YorksHammer » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:50 pm

What was it that Lanzini got for simulation, a retrospective two game ban wasn't it?

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Billydinho » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:20 pm

YorksHammer wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:50 pm
What was it that Lanzini got for simulation, a retrospective two game ban wasn't it?
Yep, and that was when he was really good as well.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Cabinfever » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:49 pm

Regarding Pants Man
Shades of a nightmare, find yourself in the middle of the London Stadium in just your pants.

People in the know. Seemed stupid either he was drunk, did a dare, clothes were wet from downpour, or was a bro’ from another dimension.
But what did they/could they pull him for?
Didn’t go full Monty, didn’t fight, didn’t encroach on the pitch area?

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by MUFC1975 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:27 pm

Ok here’s my take on the game, your penalty was a stonewall penalty, no questions. One of CR7s (his last claim) for me was nailed on. but due to his first claim (which clearly was not a penalty, I didn’t even need to see it a second time as it was THAT obvious) is why I think it wasn’t considered. A fair score would have been a draw regardless of the stats, we were pushed and made to work for the full 94 mins, I was surprised at DM Beijing in Noble for the pen but I can see his reasoning as to why (although I’m sure this will have annoyed Rice a little?) we were glad that Antonio wasn’t playing as he is without doubt a danger man for you. Entertaining game definitely, Atkinson and VAR were the only negatives for me for this game, we honestly thought that Lingardinho was nailed on for joining you permanently, and that the both issue was WHU thinking our valuation was too high? Personally I wanted to keep him as he gives us another outlet against certain teams, he seemed to show some respect for your fans as they supported him fully and I think that the majority of you wanted him full time? Moyes…….I’m
Not surprised as he is a very good manger and can ply good football when backed.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by GreenIron » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:27 pm

I was wrong. He didn’t deserve a couple of penalties. He deserved a couple of yellow cards and a consequent sending off for simulation.

tbf, I didn’t have the benefit of super slo-mo close up. Neither did the ref but it probably still makes him useless. Can it even be neither a penalty nor simulation, as he seemed to think?

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:46 pm

MUFC1975 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:27 pm
Ok here’s my take on the game...
Some interesting points.

As it happens, I saw McTominay as a yardstick for Declan Rice a year or so back, in that he was fresh off your production line, but clearly a strong enough individual to get regular pitch time in your colours. Indeed, he's the one out of the options you've got that I would want to keep and progress further. He'd get in most other teams in this division.

I can't personally see past Chelsea for the league title this season, but also spy a bit of a slack time in terms of performance level at The Etihad.

What do you seriously consider to be your most likely position come the 'business end' of this new season?

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Aceface » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:56 am

Can't recall the last time there was so much whingeing about a penalty decision, despite them being far from clear cut even after dozens of viewings and the fact the aggrieved team won.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by sendô » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:05 am

MUFC1975 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:27 pm
Ok here’s my take on the game, your penalty was a stonewall penalty, no questions. One of CR7s (his last claim) for me was nailed on. but due to his first claim (which clearly was not a penalty, I didn’t even need to see it a second time as it was THAT obvious) is why I think it wasn’t considered.
It wasn't considered because he dived. He didn't need to dive - Zouma had lunged in and not got the ball - but Cristiano Ronaldo (to give him his real name, not CR7) was already throwing himself to the floor by cleverly dragging his right leg before he even made contact with Zouma. Which proves that he could easily have jumped over Zouma if he wanted to.

In truth though it should not have got to that point. The first one was a dive as Cristiano Ronaldo changed the line of his run intentionally so that he could run into Coufal and simulate Coufal blocking him (ie a dive and so yellow card), and then there was also the off the ball one where Cristiano Ronaldo ran into one of our defenders (I forget who, might have been Cresswell) and threw himself to the floor (so another dive and another yellow).

Add to that the clear foul on Soucek by Wan-Bissaka that was inexplicably given as a Man Utd free kick, I don't see how any Man Utd fan can bleat about penalties in this game.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by OFT » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:09 am

Billydinho wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:35 pm
He ran into Coufal, deliberately. It was Jamie Vardy-esque and we happily call him a c*nt for it.

Just because everyone wants to w*nk over Ronaldo it doesn't make him any less of a cheating scumbag. He and that rat faced pr*ck Fernandes were diving all over the place.

Utterly embarrassing.
Exactly that Billydinho.

I'll just add that Solskjaer is fast rising in my ranks of 'individuals who I despise in the game'

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by Billydinho » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:10 am

MUFC1975 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:27 pm
Ok here’s my take on the game, your penalty was a stonewall penalty, no questions. One of CR7s (his last claim) for me was nailed on. but due to his first claim (which clearly was not a penalty, I didn’t even need to see it a second time as it was THAT obvious) is why I think it wasn’t considered. A fair score would have been a draw regardless of the stats, we were pushed and made to work for the full 94 mins, I was surprised at DM Beijing in Noble for the pen but I can see his reasoning as to why (although I’m sure this will have annoyed Rice a little?) we were glad that Antonio wasn’t playing as he is without doubt a danger man for you. Entertaining game definitely, Atkinson and VAR were the only negatives for me for this game, we honestly thought that Lingardinho was nailed on for joining you permanently, and that the both issue was WHU thinking our valuation was too high? Personally I wanted to keep him as he gives us another outlet against certain teams, he seemed to show some respect for your fans as they supported him fully and I think that the majority of you wanted him full time? Moyes…….I’m
Not surprised as he is a very good manger and can ply good football when backed.
No offence here my friend but the fact you call him "CR7" is exactly what is wrong with the game. He only still wears 7 because the league bent over backwards for Man United.

It always seems to come from the glory clubs...

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Manchester Utd: match thread

Post by honkytonk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:21 am

I agree with the above, Ronaldo and Fernandes spent the whole game trying to con the ref.

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