The Energy Crisis

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wolf359
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by wolf359 »

jastons wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:51 pm If the chancellor can't help the cost of living then Wtf can he do?
Go to nice events and work on his post government after dinner speeches.
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DaveWHU1964
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

jastons wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:51 pm If the chancellor can't help the cost of living then Wtf can he do?
When even the boss of the CBI says the need to help people through this is a “moral imperative’’ you should know you need to do something.

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... rative-cbi

Sunak/ this government will have to act. Sooner or later they will. Not because of any ‘moral imperative’ on their side but because of pure self-interest on their part. This crisis won’t just hit those it normally hits. It’s going to hit those whose votes the Tories have come to rely on/ need.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by StoneHammer »

jastons wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:51 pm If the chancellor can't help the cost of living then Wtf can he do?
Spend £500k on think tanks and consultancy firms to affect a PR blitz?

Bugger off to California to moan about the UK to his Silicone Valley friends?

Be a useless posh c**t?
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Pop Robson
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Pop Robson »

I'd have thought they'd have got rid of the VAT on energy for now, but they said that also benefits the better off !!!

So your granny that needs the heat on all day v a person in the office on £100k with the heating off at home ?!

The NI changes coming in benefits everyone but that's Ok
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Re: The Energy Crisis

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mumbles87
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

£400 to see through winter prob is about correct to cover the extra isn't it? I mean prices projected to go say to 9p for sake of argument (7p now but will rise) and they were 4p on the price cap last year so that 5p a unit times by what I used (I don't use a lot) was £48 a month for the coldest months so a normal house prob £70-80 which is 5-6 months

Seems fair and the non payback change is what people need
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by smuts »

400 quid is about half of what prices are projected to rise in October. Every little helps and the government can't be expected to bail everyone out but it's not going to solve a lot of people's problems over this.

Some of the financial experts have said that this could lead to worse inflation but if the likes of Shell, BP etc announce record profits again next quarter there'll probably be a huge backlash.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

I don’t really know what it costs but I was wondering what the prospects are for subsidised insulation of some sort in lower income houses, which would not only save people money but also reduce aggregate demand. I guess the problem is that this isn’t an instant thing, but I’d like to see someone try and do something with the money beyond giving it to people. I don’t know what the payback period is on loft insulation or whatever other stuff you can do.

Could you also do something where pricing ratchets up at certain usage points e.g. you pay x per kilowatt hour for your first however many kilowatt hours, then over that you pay 20% more? I’m making the numbers up but am trying to incentive people to use less.
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mumbles87
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Re: The Energy Crisis

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EvilC wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:43 am I don’t really know what it costs but I was wondering what the prospects are for subsidised insulation of some sort in lower income houses, which would not only save people money but also reduce aggregate demand. I guess the problem is that this isn’t an instant thing, but I’d like to see someone try and do something with the money beyond giving it to people. I don’t know what the payback period is on loft insulation or whatever other stuff you can do.

Could you also do something where pricing ratchets up at certain usage points e.g. you pay x per kilowatt hour for your first however many kilowatt hours, then over that you pay 20% more? I’m making the numbers up but am trying to incentive people to use less.
I thought they had a lot of help already on insulation for low incomes? But then a lot don't own their houses and as long as they meet the current standard a landlord won't change it

Depends on walls aswell I mean we need solid wall insulation which is so much more expensive than cavity wall insulation.. I doubt a landlord would bother.. just let the tenant pay more in energy not their problem


The second idea sounds sensible .. everyone gets a set limit (say 3000kw electric 12000kw gas) at a discount .. after that the normal (or more to make up the loss) applies .. makes people want to reduce use

Trying to convince the Mrs to let me replace the oven to get induction.. to cut down our gas even more.. but until I can get a heat pump im still buggered in winter
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Rays Rock »

EvilC wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:43 am I don’t really know what it costs but I was wondering what the prospects are for subsidised insulation of some sort in lower income houses, which would not only save people money but also reduce aggregate demand. I guess the problem is that this isn’t an instant thing, but I’d like to see someone try and do something with the money beyond giving it to people. I don’t know what the payback period is on loft insulation or whatever other stuff you can do.

Could you also do something where pricing ratchets up at certain usage points e.g. you pay x per kilowatt hour for your first however many kilowatt hours, then over that you pay 20% more? I’m making the numbers up but am trying to incentive people to use less.
The insulation plan would easily be the best idea, however as you say in order to deal with this winter a payment to help pay bills would be needed as the time and logistics of insulating houses isn’t there.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

Rays Rock wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:58 am The insulation plan would easily be the best idea, however as you say in order to deal with this winter a payment to help pay bills would be needed as the time and logistics of insulating houses isn’t there.
https://ecohomeinsulationscheme.co.uk/? ... VUQAvD_BwE

That helps already around tho? Just for homeowners
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

EvilC wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:43 am I don’t really know what it costs but I was wondering what the prospects are for subsidised insulation of some sort in lower income houses, which would not only save people money but also reduce aggregate demand. I guess the problem is that this isn’t an instant thing, but I’d like to see someone try and do something with the money beyond giving it to people. I don’t know what the payback period is on loft insulation or whatever other stuff you can do.

Could you also do something where pricing ratchets up at certain usage points e.g. you pay x per kilowatt hour for your first however many kilowatt hours, then over that you pay 20% more? I’m making the numbers up but am trying to incentive people to use less.
I hope they back date it if so. Just in the process of insulating walls floors and ceilings downstairs. Cost is in the thousands to tens of thousands.

Loft insulation payback is a couple of years I think. Aren't most houses done already? It's walls and draughts that are the big problem these days. Cavity walls are easy but again aren't most done? Solid walls is either go the way we have and give up some floorspace or clad the house outside.

Any scheme will need to be better thought out than the 2 they have already tried.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

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mumbles87 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:51 am I thought they had a lot of help already on insulation for low incomes? But then a lot don't own their houses and as long as they meet the current standard a landlord won't change it

Depends on walls aswell I mean we need solid wall insulation which is so much more expensive than cavity wall insulation.. I doubt a landlord would bother.. just let the tenant pay more in energy not their problem


The second idea sounds sensible .. everyone gets a set limit (say 3000kw electric 12000kw gas) at a discount .. after that the normal (or more to make up the loss) applies .. makes people want to reduce use

Trying to convince the Mrs to let me replace the oven to get induction.. to cut down our gas even more.. but until I can get a heat pump im still buggered in winter
You going for a heat pump mumbles ?
I’ve heard quite a few things about ignoring the bad publicity on them. They can work very well. Apparently the key thing to investigate is to look at who you get to install it. Don’t just pick any central heating plumber. And also a buffer tank isn’t strictly necessary as they tend to get installed and end up using the immersion heater pretty much most of the time to supplement your space heating. A good installation along with correct sizing and insulation can work well.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

Rays Rock wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:03 am You going for a heat pump mumbles ?
I’ve heard quite a few things about ignoring the bad publicity on them. They can work very well. Apparently the key thing to investigate is to look at who you get to install it. Don’t just pick any central heating plumber. And also a buffer tank isn’t strictly necessary as they tend to get installed and end up using the immersion heater pretty much most of the time to supplement your space heating. A good installation along with correct sizing and insulation can work well.
I'm considering it, the boiler is only 2019 when the loft got done so it isn't a pressing issue in terms of actual providing heat just want it done in a mid range time

I like the idea of them. Will need a tank so that will need space

I appreciate you can get discount but what worries me is the discount is subject to a EPC and following the advice.. if they say we need solid wall insulation that's even more money just to get a grant so might need to wait until can just afford the pump...

Electric supply is the other issue. Got 80 amp fuse (just upgraded) need to see if can get on 80 amp otherwise it's a new supply .. maybe even 3 phase

Looking what walls I could insulation inside instead of outside but the stairs are a problem
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

The current deal on heat pumps is much worse than the one that ended in March.

Spent months last year looking into this and in the end didn't. The assessments of running costs werent in anyway money saving. Nobody could say with certainty of they would adequately heat the space we have or provide enough water.

You really need solar panels and wet underfloor heating and the outdoor unit needs to be near a drain. This was the real clincher in the end for us 8 months, 3 companies, 5 surveys in total and only the trained heating engineer finally mentioned that pumping the condensation away would cost more than we could ever save. The companies go through staff at an alarming rate, it's real wild west stuff at the moment.

Will look again once the new boiler wears out
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Sammy, what I am seeing more and more of is that it's not so much the costs, it's the carbon reduction . Bloody weird if you ask me. Especially now.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:01 am I hope they back date it if so. Just in the process of insulating walls floors and ceilings downstairs. Cost is in the thousands to tens of thousands.

Loft insulation payback is a couple of years I think. Aren't most houses done already? It's walls and draughts that are the big problem these days. Cavity walls are easy but again aren't most done? Solid walls is either go the way we have and give up some floorspace or clad the house outside.

Any scheme will need to be better thought out than the 2 they have already tried.
Honestly I don't know. I am possibly the least practically minded person on the planet and am a danger to my house doing DIY.

I just would have thought that some sort of analysis would reveal a bit of low hanging fruit.

Mumbles raised a good point, which is that landlords don't care. The extension of this is that if you pay to have insulation or whatever done at rented properties, landlords will probably put the rent up as the place is more energy efficient.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:45 am Sammy, what I am seeing more and more of is that it's not so much the costs, it's the carbon reduction . Bloody weird if you ask me. Especially now.
Yeah tbh it was part of our consideration. It's a nice bonus but with a higher cost and lower performance it wasn't as attractive. Plus we would have got about 14k back not the 5k now on offer.

It's a technology that is developing quickly so hopefully next time we need a new boiler it will make sense.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Yeah tbh it was part of our consideration. It's a nice bonus but with a higher cost and lower performance it wasn't as attractive. Plus we would have got about 14k back not the 5k now on offer.

It's a technology that is developing quickly so hopefully next time we need a new boiler it will make sense.
Reminds me of when offices and the like were transitioning from typical fluorescent to LEDs. The tech was so fast moving and a lot of building managers were caught out with their new installations being redundant after just a couple of years, due to no longer being able to source replacement parts.

All new tech needs time to become regulated and some form of guarantee put in place that you'll get replacement parts in 48 - 60 months time (as a minimum). After all, these are massive personal investments.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

EvilC wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:59 am Honestly I don't know. I am possibly the least practically minded person on the planet and am a danger to my house doing DIY.

I just would have thought that some sort of analysis would reveal a bit of low hanging fruit.

Mumbles raised a good point, which is that landlords don't care. The extension of this is that if you pay to have insulation or whatever done at rented properties, landlords will probably put the rent up as the place is more energy efficient.
I only know this because my friend has the worst landlord in the world but is stuck there ATM

She has a daughter same age as my twins and her room gets so cold they had to plug in a oil filled heater, the roof leaked over the kitchen for a year before he did anything, the house was so dangerously wired that it took a sparky condemning it to get fixed

These people are just scum
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