The Energy Crisis

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EvilC
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

Tenbury wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:38 pm Well if they don't adhere to any court order, ultimately they'll be jailed(and still have to pay), it's the way the civil law works for every other kind of company. Perhaps someone could give an example of a utility company that's gone broke as a result of bad debt.
That doesn’t mean the supplier gets their money. The person is a significant bankruptcy risk. We’ve explained why utilities are different here.

Chasing people for money is expensive.

That no utility has gone bust isn’t some sort of gotcha. They just go bust for loads of other reasons. And it is having people on prepay that is going to make this less of an issue.
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Tenbury wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:38 pm Well if they don't adhere to any court order, ultimately they'll be jailed(and still have to pay), it's the way the civil law works for every other kind of company. Perhaps someone could give an example of a utility company that's gone broke as a result of bad debt.
It's highly unlikely they would be jailed. Getting people to pay off a debt if they have no assets is extremely difficult. You are into the £5 a week realms while they also still need to be supplied.
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Tenbury
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Tenbury »

I seem to be hearing a good deal advocating pre payment meters that seems to be predicated on the idea that people who have them (often are compelled to have them) are people that don't pay their utility bills, and I, perhaps stupidly, don't believe this to be true.
In the 6th largest economy in the world, vulnerable people should not be living in cold accommodation.
[ and before some remind me of the current Govt. support, which is welcome, I'd point out that I personally receive the maximum support, but even though I only heat 4 rooms in this place I still have to find 400pounds from my budget over and above any support. This when the underlying inflation rate is over10%, and the state pension increase half that figure.]
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

DaveWHU1964 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:48 am Jeez Sam.
What? It was in reply to 'we are obliged to keep buying'.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

Tenbury wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:53 am I seem to be hearing a good deal advocating pre payment meters that seems to be predicated on the idea that people who have them (often are compelled to have them) are people that don't pay their utility bills, and I, perhaps stupidly, don't believe this to be true.
In the 6th largest economy in the world, vulnerable people should not be living in cold accommodation.
[ and before some remind me of the current Govt. support, which is welcome, I'd point out that I personally receive the maximum support, but even though I only heat 4 rooms in this place I still have to find 400pounds from my budget over and above any support. This when the underlying inflation rate is over10%, and the state pension increase half that figure.]
Many people have prepay meters. A portion of those will be perceived as higher credit risks.

Government support not being adequate is a related but quite separate issue.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by alf git »

Tenbury wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:53 am I seem to be hearing a good deal advocating pre payment meters that seems to be predicated on the idea that people who have them (often are compelled to have them) are people that don't pay their utility bills, and I, perhaps stupidly, don't believe this to be true.
In the 6th largest economy in the world, vulnerable people should not be living in cold accommodation.
You're right, they shouldn't.
I've already explained how the vulnerable can't be forced in to having a pre payment meter. You seem to be conflating two different issues.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Tenbury »

No Alf, with respect, IMO I'm looking at the actuality rather than the theory. (and I realise I was misusing the term 'vulnerable' in this sense to include people on very low income)
For example, the poorest people tend to rent their accommodation, very often this comes with a prepayment meter already installed..... Where's the choice there?
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Your landlord can't stop you changing the meter for a credit one. Unless the landlord pays the bill.

You don't need their permission to change it.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Tenbury »

No, you just need a couple of hundred quid deposit!!!!!!!
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

For what
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by alf git »

Tenbury wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:35 am No Alf, with respect, IMO I'm looking at the actuality rather than the theory. (and I realise I was misusing the term 'vulnerable' in this sense to include people on very low income)
For example, the poorest people tend to rent their accommodation, very often this comes with a prepayment meter already installed..... Where's the choice there?
Any grounds for not having a pre payment meter installed in the first place are also grounds for getting one removed or, if smart, being switched to a credit tariff.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Tenbury »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:08 pm For what
That's what the companies often ask for.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by alf git »

I'm out.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Tenbury »

Me too.
Hey, you can't agree on everything, and more to the point you can't change it either!
Much respect to you all(yep, and you Sammy :lover:)
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

Was told by someone that has been pissing about with a spreadsheet that current price cap forecasts are:
Q2: £3,000
Q3/Q4: £2,200.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

so as of sunday morning my fix ended. bye bye 14p day and 5.5p night you have served me well. however I have managed to use that to build a healthy £1440 in the energy account with the aim of keeping my DD the same and see how much is left come april 2024. sums come in at £1000 but shall see what real world brings.

as the fix rate ended I had saved from solar and battery (solar since may 9th and battery october 5th) a total of .. £416.50.. considering thats on the cheap rate im delighted with it (for figures the battery saving was 13.5kw a day times 14p-5.5p so 13.5 times 8.5p, solar was all at 14p as thats the usage it saves)

onto 2 days at the new normal rates.. so far average of £5 saved a day (£5.24 and £5.60 calling it £5 for ease) all sums are 13.5 kw battery at 12p instead of 45p day.. but because I could be on 34p standard i work it against the saving on that so 22p a kw saved per 13.5kw.. that roughly £3 a day for the battery) solar is all worked out at 34p aswell to keep it standard .. export still a poor 4.1p so trying to put as much as possible back into the battery for later in day.

payback (only if rates stay this stupidly high) a smidge over 8 years however more than happy with just keeping the bill level

for full transparency I have only done 13.5 x 22p as the saving even though I do save more but thats by moving a few kw usage (7 roughly) to the cheap hours (ie dishwasher and heat pump tumble and heat pump air con warming living room for couple hours to keep the temp up so heating doesnt have to use so much gas) so I dont include that in my solar savings as it doesnt overly count.

£416.50 saved so far as stated, (plus £10 for past 2 days) looks like to be roughly £1800 a year saving but ill work with £1500 just to not disappoint if it doesnt.

better my pocket than theirs.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by OFT »

I've made no secret of the fact that I'm but a simple lad so can someone explain the huge fuel company profits. Yes, I know there's a global shortage/ crisis and that drives prices up, however, if 'they've' all made huge record profits that suggests to me, at least, that the increased prices we the consumer have been asked to pay, are perhaps disproportionate to what was required to maintain the balance we had.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

On the contrary, given the subsidies the government has put up, you actually haven’t paid enough (from a pure economic perspective, I’m sure morally you’d argue you’ve paid plenty).

I will try and explain tomorrow if I get some time and am at my PC.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

EvilC wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:44 pm On the contrary, given the subsidies the government has put up, you actually haven’t paid enough.

I will try and explain tomorrow if I get some time and am at my PC.
But that money has still gone to the energy companies has it not? Ie they electric to us at 34p .. but the gov pay them the difference between wholesale and that price .. call it 30p for sake of argument

So they still get their money. Regardless that we have paid whatever

When the gov is reducing the costs .. yes a windfall tax but on profits like that it's clearly not enough.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

mumbles87 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:46 pm But that money has still gone to the energy companies has it not? Ie they electric to us at 34p .. but the gov pay them the difference between wholesale and that price .. call it 30p for sake of argument

So they still get their money. Regardless that we have paid whatever

When the gov is reducing the costs .. yes a windfall tax but on profits like that it's clearly not enough.
Yes it does. But the consumer doesn’t feel that directly.
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