A "worry about my debts when I'm dead and leave it to my kids and grandkids to take responsibility". sort of plan.mumbles87 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:53 pm or the actual need to. there is always an unhealthy obsession with balancing the books over a short period of time.
100 year economic plan needed . aim for it slowly by then with policy to build and growth
not oh lets try and cut everything and do it within 5 years.
The Energy Crisis
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- bubbles1966
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Re: The Energy Crisis
Re: The Energy Crisis
a providing a better world with better job opportunities available due to investment to make them able to pay back the debt ...bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:17 pm A "worry about my debts when I'm dead and leave it to my kids and grandkids to take responsibility". sort of plan.
kind of plan.
- bubbles1966
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Re: The Energy Crisis
Which is exactly what we're doing by pumping £100bn of public money into private hands with nothing tangible in return other than people not freezing to death.bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:17 pm A "worry about my debts when I'm dead and leave it to my kids and grandkids to take responsibility". sort of plan.
- SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: The Energy Crisis
I'm very much in the don't spend for nothing camp. The difference this time compared to say the banks is we need them this time. For about a week we had the bank's over a barrel, unless you have an oil well in your garden the energy producers have us over the barrel.
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Re: The Energy Crisis
Oil isn't the issue, it's gas and electric. We don't need to buy BP and Shell. I don't know why people keep implying we do.
- bubbles1966
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Re: The Energy Crisis
TBF, that's a fairly, tangible and reasonable thing to spend on to some extent.
But I agree the sentiment about piling on debt.
We (our governments) have been racking it up for 20 years and I think it's possible we will see 150% debt to GDP within the next three years - a barely sustainable debt burden.
I don't blame the current lot for 'doing something' - but the country's been racking up debt in the so-called good times for the last twenty years. The little'uns at nursery today won't see a pension before they are 70.
I think that debt should be used to cover a short term shock, not long term running costs but that's almost become an orthodoxy in the last twenty years.
- MB
- Cricket's Darren Anderton
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Re: The Energy Crisis
It is the big oil companies extracting the gas from the North Sea mate. I.e. the bit, in theory, we could nationalise.
- Johnny Byrne's Boots
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Re: The Energy Crisis
Don't the extraction companies pay a handsome licence fee to HMG to be allowed to extract the gas? Aren't they in effect buying the gas from the government?
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Re: The Energy Crisis
Fingers crossed. If this is true then Putin's decision to cut gas supply to Europe was too late to have any effect.
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Re: The Energy Crisis
I wouldn't get too excited, the price levels that they are suggesting there are still eye-wateringly high. The paper also highlights a number of risks.
- MB
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Re: The Energy Crisis
Hopefully someone in the know can answer, but a quick look on the Internet would suggest not.Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:42 am Don't the extraction companies pay a handsome licence fee to HMG to be allowed to extract the gas? Aren't they in effect buying the gas from the government?
Licences fees are in the thousands and the Levy to cover the cost of oversight raises £32m a year!
The gain I assume is jobs and, some, taxes.
- Johnny Byrne's Boots
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Re: The Energy Crisis
^^^^Looks like they may have missed a trick there. Perhaps they should rethink licencing fees.
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Re: The Energy Crisis
This is the same government that sold a fuel pipeline network it owned for £82m - only to immediately pay the same company £237m to access it for the next ten years:Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:11 pm ^^^^Looks like they may have missed a trick there. Perhaps they should rethink licencing fees.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System
Once you accept that the government's key motivation is enriching the private sector, a lot of decisions start to make more sense.
- bonzosbeard
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Re: The Energy Crisis
What do our press really do?StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:43 am This is the same government that sold a fuel pipeline network it owned for £82m - only to immediately pay the same company £237m to access it for the next ten years:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System
Once you accept that the government's key motivation is enriching the private sector, a lot of decisions start to make more sense.
Is this not a case for heads rolling??
- Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
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Re: The Energy Crisis
wasn't that the coalition (2012)?StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:43 am This is the same government that sold a fuel pipeline network it owned for £82m - only to immediately pay the same company £237m to access it for the next ten years:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System
Once you accept that the government's key motivation is enriching the private sector, a lot of decisions start to make more sense.
- bubbles1966
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Re: The Energy Crisis
Yep, so Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Cable, Alexander and co. Their heads have already rolled, though in fairness, the article doesn't explain the ongoing liabilities that the public sector offloaded as part of the sale - payroll, maintenance, taxes etc. Bound to consume a sizeable amount of the £23m a year (less than the cost of a Pablo Fornals) service contract.
The state will need to offload all sorts in the next three years. It can't afford to run it all , and we are a long way past millions being the scale. Billions, even trillions.
The state will need to offload all sorts in the next three years. It can't afford to run it all , and we are a long way past millions being the scale. Billions, even trillions.
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Re: The Energy Crisis
was wondering the same.bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:41 am Yep, so Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Cable, Alexander and co. Their heads have already rolled, though in fairness, the article doesn't explain the ongoing liabilities that the public sector offloaded as part of the sale - payroll, maintenance, taxes etc. Bound to consume a sizeable amount of £23m a year (less than the cost of a Pablo Fornals).
The state will need to offload all sorts in the next three years. It can't afford to run it all , and we are a long way past millions.
The article mentions various bits having to have had major replacement works/maintenance ongoing, but also says that the current operator has closed bits down, so was it an asset worth keeping?
- SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: The Energy Crisis
The issue with these sell offs seems to be not so much that they are sold and turn into cash cows but that they aren't making all that cash before they are sold.
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Re: The Energy Crisis
I'm not a Private Eye fanboy, but they seem to be the only bit of the British media that ever reports on stuff like this.bonzosbeard wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:42 am What do our press really do?
Is this not a case for heads rolling??
(It took the New York Times to expose the corruption around Covid contracts and as far as I'm aware nothing has happened in response to that.)
And I was curious myself about ongoing maintenance, etc. costs. Even allowing for that spend, an FoI request a couple of years after the sell-off revealed that the pipeline network was making a profit before it was sold - essentially, if I understood correctly, because private airports had to pay for use of it.