The Energy Crisis

KUMB's 24-hour rolling news channel. The Forum in which to discuss non sport-related news and current affairs, including politics.

Moderators: Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks

Post Reply
User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 66970
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm
Location: I'm holding onto nothing, and trying to forget the rest
Has liked: 2437 likes
Total likes: 4292 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by bubbles1966 »

mumbles87 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:53 pm or the actual need to. there is always an unhealthy obsession with balancing the books over a short period of time.

100 year economic plan needed . aim for it slowly by then with policy to build and growth

not oh lets try and cut everything and do it within 5 years.
A "worry about my debts when I'm dead and leave it to my kids and grandkids to take responsibility". sort of plan.
User avatar
mumbles87
Posts: 17676
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:35 am
Has liked: 55 likes
Total likes: 935 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

bubbles1966 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:17 pm A "worry about my debts when I'm dead and leave it to my kids and grandkids to take responsibility". sort of plan.
a providing a better world with better job opportunities available due to investment to make them able to pay back the debt ...

kind of plan.
User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 66970
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm
Location: I'm holding onto nothing, and trying to forget the rest
Has liked: 2437 likes
Total likes: 4292 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by bubbles1966 »

mumbles87 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:18 pm a providing a better world with better job opportunities available due to investment to make them able to pay back the debt ...
kind of plan.
That's what they said 25 years ago. Didn't work.
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44309
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2424 likes
Total likes: 2636 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by sendô »

bubbles1966 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:17 pm A "worry about my debts when I'm dead and leave it to my kids and grandkids to take responsibility". sort of plan.
Which is exactly what we're doing by pumping £100bn of public money into private hands with nothing tangible in return other than people not freezing to death.
User avatar
SammyLeeWasOffside
Posts: 21691
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
Has liked: 290 likes
Total likes: 1022 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

sendô wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:25 am Which is exactly what we're doing by pumping £100bn of public money into private hands with nothing tangible in return other than people not freezing to death.
I'm very much in the don't spend for nothing camp. The difference this time compared to say the banks is we need them this time. For about a week we had the bank's over a barrel, unless you have an oil well in your garden the energy producers have us over the barrel.
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44309
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2424 likes
Total likes: 2636 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by sendô »

Oil isn't the issue, it's gas and electric. We don't need to buy BP and Shell. I don't know why people keep implying we do.
User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 66970
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm
Location: I'm holding onto nothing, and trying to forget the rest
Has liked: 2437 likes
Total likes: 4292 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by bubbles1966 »

sendô wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:25 am Which is exactly what we're doing by pumping £100bn of public money into private hands with nothing tangible in return other than people not freezing to death.
TBF, that's a fairly, tangible and reasonable thing to spend on to some extent.

But I agree the sentiment about piling on debt.

We (our governments) have been racking it up for 20 years and I think it's possible we will see 150% debt to GDP within the next three years - a barely sustainable debt burden.

I don't blame the current lot for 'doing something' - but the country's been racking up debt in the so-called good times for the last twenty years. The little'uns at nursery today won't see a pension before they are 70.

I think that debt should be used to cover a short term shock, not long term running costs but that's almost become an orthodoxy in the last twenty years.
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 25149
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 5556 likes
Total likes: 3053 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by MB »

sendô wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:06 am Oil isn't the issue, it's gas and electric. We don't need to buy BP and Shell. I don't know why people keep implying we do.
It is the big oil companies extracting the gas from the North Sea mate. I.e. the bit, in theory, we could nationalise.
User avatar
Johnny Byrne's Boots
Posts: 32135
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Care home dodger
Has liked: 1788 likes
Total likes: 2072 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

MB wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:28 am It is the big oil companies extracting the gas from the North Sea mate. I.e. the bit, in theory, we could nationalise.
Don't the extraction companies pay a handsome licence fee to HMG to be allowed to extract the gas? Aren't they in effect buying the gas from the government?
Dimension Diver
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:52 am
Has liked: 278 likes
Total likes: 378 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Dimension Diver »

Fingers crossed. If this is true then Putin's decision to cut gas supply to Europe was too late to have any effect.

User avatar
EvilC
Posts: 18221
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...
Has liked: 2627 likes
Total likes: 1178 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

I wouldn't get too excited, the price levels that they are suggesting there are still eye-wateringly high. The paper also highlights a number of risks.
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 25149
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 5556 likes
Total likes: 3053 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by MB »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:42 am Don't the extraction companies pay a handsome licence fee to HMG to be allowed to extract the gas? Aren't they in effect buying the gas from the government?
Hopefully someone in the know can answer, but a quick look on the Internet would suggest not.

Licences fees are in the thousands and the Levy to cover the cost of oversight raises £32m a year!

The gain I assume is jobs and, some, taxes.
User avatar
Johnny Byrne's Boots
Posts: 32135
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Care home dodger
Has liked: 1788 likes
Total likes: 2072 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

^^^^Looks like they may have missed a trick there. Perhaps they should rethink licencing fees.
User avatar
StevePottsGoalsReel
Posts: 5864
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:05 am
Has liked: 3122 likes
Total likes: 2265 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:11 pm ^^^^Looks like they may have missed a trick there. Perhaps they should rethink licencing fees.
This is the same government that sold a fuel pipeline network it owned for £82m - only to immediately pay the same company £237m to access it for the next ten years:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System

Once you accept that the government's key motivation is enriching the private sector, a lot of decisions start to make more sense.
User avatar
bonzosbeard
Posts: 13224
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:48 am
Location: somerset
Has liked: 2115 likes
Total likes: 1336 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by bonzosbeard »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:43 am This is the same government that sold a fuel pipeline network it owned for £82m - only to immediately pay the same company £237m to access it for the next ten years:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System

Once you accept that the government's key motivation is enriching the private sector, a lot of decisions start to make more sense.
What do our press really do?

Is this not a case for heads rolling??
User avatar
Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
Posts: 11576
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:45 pm
Has liked: 942 likes
Total likes: 479 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:43 am This is the same government that sold a fuel pipeline network it owned for £82m - only to immediately pay the same company £237m to access it for the next ten years:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System

Once you accept that the government's key motivation is enriching the private sector, a lot of decisions start to make more sense.
wasn't that the coalition (2012)?
User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 66970
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm
Location: I'm holding onto nothing, and trying to forget the rest
Has liked: 2437 likes
Total likes: 4292 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by bubbles1966 »

Yep, so Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Cable, Alexander and co. Their heads have already rolled, though in fairness, the article doesn't explain the ongoing liabilities that the public sector offloaded as part of the sale - payroll, maintenance, taxes etc. Bound to consume a sizeable amount of the £23m a year (less than the cost of a Pablo Fornals) service contract.

The state will need to offload all sorts in the next three years. It can't afford to run it all , and we are a long way past millions being the scale. Billions, even trillions.
User avatar
Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
Posts: 11576
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:45 pm
Has liked: 942 likes
Total likes: 479 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

bubbles1966 wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:41 am Yep, so Cameron, Clegg, Osborne, Cable, Alexander and co. Their heads have already rolled, though in fairness, the article doesn't explain the ongoing liabilities that the public sector offloaded as part of the sale - payroll, maintenance, taxes etc. Bound to consume a sizeable amount of £23m a year (less than the cost of a Pablo Fornals).

The state will need to offload all sorts in the next three years. It can't afford to run it all , and we are a long way past millions.
was wondering the same.

The article mentions various bits having to have had major replacement works/maintenance ongoing, but also says that the current operator has closed bits down, so was it an asset worth keeping?
User avatar
SammyLeeWasOffside
Posts: 21691
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
Has liked: 290 likes
Total likes: 1022 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

The issue with these sell offs seems to be not so much that they are sold and turn into cash cows but that they aren't making all that cash before they are sold.
User avatar
StevePottsGoalsReel
Posts: 5864
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:05 am
Has liked: 3122 likes
Total likes: 2265 likes

Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

bonzosbeard wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:42 am What do our press really do?

Is this not a case for heads rolling??
I'm not a Private Eye fanboy, but they seem to be the only bit of the British media that ever reports on stuff like this.

(It took the New York Times to expose the corruption around Covid contracts and as far as I'm aware nothing has happened in response to that.)

And I was curious myself about ongoing maintenance, etc. costs. Even allowing for that spend, an FoI request a couple of years after the sell-off revealed that the pipeline network was making a profit before it was sold - essentially, if I understood correctly, because private airports had to pay for use of it.
Post Reply