The Energy Crisis

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EvilC
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:20 pm The concept of having to "change energy provider" and your bills going up is peak capitalism.

The cable going into your house remains the same, as does the grid system and the power station generating the electricity. Our current system is nothing more than investors gambling on the best price they can get for a unit of electricity.

The government should 100% be held to account for this shambles and should be picking up the bill for any increased cost to any consumers.

Go back to the days when we had electricity boards.
You'll need to explain that bit.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:20 pm The concept of having to "change energy provider" and your bills going up is peak capitalism.

The cable going into your house remains the same, as does the grid system and the power station generating the electricity. Our current system is nothing more than investors gambling on the best price they can get for a unit of electricity.

The government should 100% be held to account for this shambles and should be picking up the bill for any increased cost to any consumers.

Go back to the days when we had electricity boards.
Why stop there? Why not get British Telecom back and only allow home phones to be supplied and installed by them?

Joking of course, but choice is important to stop things being monopolised, maybe too much choice is a bad thing? Maybe there needs to be some form of checks over energy companies to ensure that they can deliver? Maybe this is an extraordinary event and was simply unexpected?

I'd imagine the reasons will not matter to those who may be affected by any possible fallout.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:46 pm Why stop there? Why not get British Telecom back and only allow home phones to be supplied and installed by them?

Joking of course, but choice is important to stop things being monopolised, maybe too much choice is a bad thing? Maybe there needs to be some form of checks over energy companies to ensure that they can deliver? Maybe this is an extraordinary event and was simply unexpected?

I'd imagine the reasons will not matter to those who may be affected by any possible fallout.
The way to prevent it is to have companies that enter to having some capital behind them and some other requirements. It was an extraordinary event, but these events happen periodically. This one is particularly severe, but a cull (maybe not one this big) in the sector is long overdue.

The way the market works, you can get significant funding from what are called ROCS, which are you due to pay the government. If you go bust, all the other suppliers pay. The co-founder of a very large and now almost bust challenger supplier told me that without that source of funding, his company would probably never have come to be. This is a regulatory oversight issue.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

EvilC wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:46 pm This is fine. Tangental to the energy crisis, but still fine, obviously.

I don't know what you're gonna do but I'm going to PANIC BUY ME SOME PETROL NOW .
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:14 pm I don't know what you're gonna do but I'm going to PANIC BUY ME SOME PETROL NOW .
I'm getting some hosepipe, some buckets and will be siphoning the stuff out of people's 4x4s.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

EvilC wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:16 pm I'm getting some hosepipe, some buckets and will be siphoning the stuff out of people's 4x4s.
Where's Richie when you need him? I’m sure that must be rhyming slang for something or other.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by sendô »

EvilC wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:47 pm You'll need to explain that bit.
Electricity companies buy wholesale and sell it to consumers. Some will buy more and try to sell it cheaper to get more customers.

I know there's more nuance than that, but that's the crux of it?
Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:46 pm Why stop there? Why not get British Telecom back and only allow home phones to be supplied and installed by them?
Have they invented electrical power that can be transmitted via WiFi/5G/4G etc now?

If so clue me in mate, we can make a killing!
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:35 pm Electricity companies buy wholesale and sell it to consumers. Some will buy more and try to sell it cheaper to get more customers.

I know there's more nuance than that, but that's the crux of it?


Have they invented electrical power that can be transmitted via WiFi/5G/4G etc now?

If so clue me in mate, we can make a killing!
Not quite, but getting there.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:35 pmElectricity companies buy wholesale and sell it to consumers. Some will buy more and try to sell it cheaper to get more customers.

I know there's more nuance than that, but that's the crux of it?
Yes (for some, some own their own generation/gas assets), but that isn't gambling.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by sendô »

Potato/potato
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:48 pmPotato/potato
Not really. The idea is that, like most businesses, you buy the wholesale product, add your other costs and sell for more than that. Unfortunately here this wasn't really possible as competition was so brutal, along with a myriad of other issues.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by sendô »

Except there's no tangible product to be bought and sold, is there?

Theres no different delivery company bringing a different version of the same electricity to your door.

The attraction of utility companies is they are generally more reliable for investments than other stocks etc, but the returns are lower. Nonetheless, as with all investments, there's always a chance of getting nothing back.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:55 pm Except there's no tangible product to be bought and sold, is there?

Theres no different delivery company bringing a different version of the same electricity to your door.

The attraction of utility companies is they are generally more reliable for investments than other stocks etc, but the returns are lower. Nonetheless, as with all investments, there's always a chance of getting nothing back.
What does it matter? Banking isn't a tangible product. Nor are loads of other things.

None of this stuff makes it gambling. All business involves risk. That's why you get a return (or don't, in this case).
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by sendô »

I see a lot of what the banks did as gambling with taxpayers money mate, so I don't think we're going to agree here.

The net result is the British taxpayer loses, as always.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

sendô wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:11 pm I see a lot of what the banks did as gambling with taxpayers money mate, so I don't think we're going to agree here.

The net result is the British taxpayer loses, as always.
Your mobile phone contract. You get a service. One is the same as the other.

This isn't gambling. It's just a shitty business where halfway adequate regulation would have reduced the impact significantly.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

EvilC wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:16 pm I'm getting some hosepipe, some buckets and will be siphoning the stuff out of people's 4x4s.
Enough about your plans for Friday night, what about the petrol?
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by bubbles1966 »

Couple of random asides:

1. I was with Tonik Energy - they collapsed at some point in the last year, and I got transferred to Scottish Power. Obviously, that was disappointing because they don't have any because it's all in Westminster (boom,boom!) - but seriously, it was a pretty smooth and painless process. What's more, a lot of these providers are seemingly very low margin and likely to collapse if their costs rise by the sound of things.

2. I had my MOT done just over a week ago. My annual mileage is down 75%.

Not entirely sure how this fits, but we live in a rapidly changing world and there is lots of fallout, as people's ways of life alter dramatically.

Make no mistake, the pandemic is the big deal with all of these things - it's totally distorted demand patterns and desires.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by bonzosbeard »

We used to have gas holder stations that could store lots of it. In every town. We also had large scale gas storage.

We still build houses that face the sun with no solar panels on. In isolation this means little but if national grid could take all the unused electricity this would make a difference.

Little things that short sighted governments have not seen.
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by delbert »

EvilC wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:21 pm Not significantly. It is smaller than the France>UK one, which isn't working at present. It is a good thing to have with us being an island and the Nordpool's access to lots of renewables, but it isn't going to make a difference here. This crisis really centres around the gas market.

There is a belief amongst some that may see gas price increases translate into oil (and therefore petrol) price increases as there may be switching away from gas to oil generation for those that have it.
:thup:
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Re: The Energy Crisis

Post by EvilC »

bubbles1966 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:52 pm Couple of random asides:

1. I was with Tonik Energy - they collapsed at some point in the last year, and I got transferred to Scottish Power. Obviously, that was disappointing because they don't have any because it's all in Westminster (boom,boom!) - but seriously, it was a pretty smooth and painless process. What's more, a lot of these providers are seemingly very low margin and likely to collapse if their costs rise by the sound of things.

2. I had my MOT done just over a week ago. My annual mileage is down 75%.

Not entirely sure how this fits, but we live in a rapidly changing world and there is lots of fallout, as people's ways of life alter dramatically.

Make no mistake, the pandemic is the big deal with all of these things - it's totally distorted demand patterns and desires.
It is partly due to the pandemic, but only partly.
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