Aston Villa 1-4 West Ham Utd (31/10/21)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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sendô
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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by sendô » Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm

I think it's possible Bowen had time to cut onto his left and pick his spot if he wasn't fouled once he got between Konsa and tha ball.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by BigFatSam » Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:48 pm

I think that Bowen’s was a clear goal scoring opportunity. Yes his first touch slightly pushed it away from goal but he was 100% going to get a one on one chance with the keeper, it would require a good finish but it would definitely be a clear scoring opportunity.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Albie Beck » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:25 pm

Mega Ron wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:41 pm
I don't think he was technically moving away from goal. Even running in the same direction he gets closer to the goal than he was. What is also obvious is that his next touch would be one that directed him to the goal.

The decision(s) were strange though. I believe that is the ref gives the red for the foul on Fornals that the free kick takes place from there and the other red can't be given.
The key point is that the ball was still in play because the ref hadn't blown up. Yes, if he had done instantly then the foul on Bowen would have happened when the ball wasn't in play so no DOGSO.

But he didn't, the ball was still in play and so two reds should have been the outcome. That is the facts.

If we're saying "the ref should have blown up [in a nanosecond]" then we are into auntie with bollox territory.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Diogenes » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:30 pm

sendô wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm
I think it's possible Bowen had time to cut onto his left and pick his spot if he wasn't fouled once he got between Konsa and tha ball.
May be, but that is speculation. In my view I believe the sending off was harsh and I would be more than a tad upset if given against us. The foul on Pablo and non penalty decisions were much more nailed on.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Mega Ron » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:33 pm

Albie Beck wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:25 pm
The key point is that the ball was still in play because the ref hadn't blown up. Yes, if he had done instantly then the foul on Bowen would have happened when the ball wasn't in play so no DOGSO.

But he didn't, the ball was still in play and so two reds should have been the outcome. That is the facts.

If we're saying "the ref should have blown up [in a nanosecond]" then we are into auntie with bollox territory.
I think the law says that if the ref, via var even, goes back to the original incident the subsequent play is seen as not having happened.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Albie Beck » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:53 pm

Mega Ron wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:33 pm
I think the law says that if the ref, via var even, goes back to the original incident the subsequent play is seen as not having happened.
Fair enough ron - that's a change that has evolved with VAR then.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:00 pm

Mega Ron wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:33 pm
I think the law says that if the ref, via var even, goes back to the original incident the subsequent play is seen as not having happened.
But the ref played advantage rather than it being a VAR issue. Is it the rule that you can't play advantage from a red card offense? I genuinely don't know.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by QLDHammer » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:59 am

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:00 pm
But the ref played advantage rather than it being a VAR issue. Is it the rule that you can't play advantage from a red card offense? I genuinely don't know.
I'm not sure on the letter of the law also, but at Newcastle last season, Dawson was given a 2nd yellow after the ref played advantage and Newcastle scored in that same passage too.

For me both Hause and Konsa should've been sent off, in fact is there any retrospective action being taken against Hause for the elbow?

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by SiamHammer » Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:38 am

The pundits on sky for the game & Dermot Gallagher on Ref Watch both said that the ref was entitled to send of both players if he wanted, as the ball was still in play for both actions

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Major » Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:00 am

Did anyone go to the Barton Arms? Do they still do great thai curry?

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by preston » Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:17 am

Yep, and it was spot on. Excellent beer too - still the same Oakham Ales.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Major » Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:59 am

preston wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:17 am
Yep, and it was spot on. Excellent beer too - still the same Oakham Ales.
Nice one, hope you had a good day.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by hammer1975 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:50 am

Billy Hunt wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:03 pm
100% that.

Would Bowen have been able to shoot at goal if he wasn't fouled ?

Quite clearly yes.

So a goalscoring opportunity has been denied. I really cannot see how there's any doubt about it :chin:
It was utterly bizarre listening to the pundits after the game suggesting that he was ‘running away from the goal’ (one even suggested he was heading more towards that corner flag than the goal) it was pretty clear that he was running straight (almost perfectly so and parallel to the side of the pitch) and would be in a position to shoot with his next touch (not to mention that he was being fouled which limited his ability to head directly towards the goal). I know some of the stuff pundits come out with is subjective but it seems that they struggle with basic geometry. Need to get my old maths teacher on for more accurate analysis.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by funky chicken » Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:11 am

I think the ref was spot on with the red card he gave for the challenge on Bowen. If it wasn’t going to be a goal scoring opportunity then how come Bowen managed to have a shot on goal from a very similar angle that eventually led to Fornals’ goal? It was 100% a goal scoring opportunity. And I would’ve said the exact same if it was a Villa player that was in on goal.

Gord knows how the challenge on Fornals wasn’t a red card though.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Highlanderabroad » Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:44 am

mushy wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:33 pm
By which time Dove had long since departed (last game 1901), our colours of Claret and blue had already been established, first of all an all light blue top, white shorts with a claret stripe running on the side, then the following season a light blue shirt with one broad claret stripe claret across the chest. neither of these kits were ever worn by Villa though. The 1903 kit (the traditional claret and blue sleeves) was very similar to the one worn by Villa in 1900. I suppose they could have been kept in a bag for three years somewhere but it seems very unlikely to me.

Great Post. Thank you.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by hammer1975 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:29 am

mushy wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:33 pm
By which time Dove had long since departed (last game 1901), our colours of Claret and blue had already been established, first of all an all light blue top, white shorts with a claret stripe running on the side, then the following season a light blue shirt with one broad claret stripe claret across the chest. neither of these kits were ever worn by Villa though. The 1903 kit (the traditional claret and blue sleeves) was very similar to the one worn by Villa in 1900. I suppose they could have been kept in a bag for three years somewhere but it seems very unlikely to me.
Find this stuff fascinating.

Probably a load of nonsense but my great grandfather told my dad that claret and blue was a popular colour combination for the teams representing some of the factories because claret represented giving your blood for the company/team and blue symbolised sweat given. So wearing claret and blue showed you gave blood and sweat for the cause (weren’t afraid of hard work etc). Like I say - probably nonsense but i believed it as a kid as rationale why such a random colour combo became so popular across different parts of the country.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Billy Hunt » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:11 pm

SiamHammer wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:38 am
The pundits on sky for the game & Dermot Gallagher on Ref Watch both said that the ref was entitled to send of both players if he wanted, as the ball was still in play for both actions
Bit odd that though as you can get a red/yellow card when the ball isn't in play

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by SA_Hammer » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:24 pm

SiO wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:20 pm
Ah yeah, the work of Hackett!!! Still gets my blood up, although the singing that proceeded it was and remains a stand out moment in following the club. Pride doesn't begin to describe the support that day...

... so yeah **** them. 2 reds it is. Some small payback even if it's the retribution is against Villa Park and not Forest. :thup:
Happy days...couldn't get a ticket so I went to Radio Rentals and took out a contract on the biggest telly they had. It was about 42 inches and weighed the same as a Landover.

Returned it on the Monday with a Crack in the screen where I hurled my can of lager at it when Galey got hooked.

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Vic_Watson » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:27 pm

SiO wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:17 pm
We were just talking reds weren't we Vic? Rather than professional fouls
You actually think that incident on the halfway line was worthy of a red?

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Re: ⚽ Aston Villa vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Vic_Watson » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:29 pm

sendô wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:43 pm
I think it's possible Bowen had time to cut onto his left and pick his spot if he wasn't fouled once he got between Konsa and tha ball.
He would have clearly got the ball and clearly been in on goal. The ref saw the same which is why he sent Konsa off after consulting the monitor.

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