Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

The Forum for all football-related discussion, including West Ham United FC. Our busiest Forum and the place to begin if you're new to KUMB.

Moderators :  -DL-, Rio, the pink palermo, bristolhammerfc, chalks, Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304

Post Reply
User avatar
ironilunga
Posts: 6864
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:05 am
Has liked: 95 likes
Total likes: 248 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by ironilunga » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:58 pm

Not much in it between us, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs and one or two others.

I would love another top 6 finish but the cups hold more interest for me, particularly UEL.

I suspect Jan transfer window will play a huge part in who finishes where.

User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 38240
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Twisting, Shouting
Has liked: 379 likes
Total likes: 596 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by prophet:marginal » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:11 pm

We have surpassed 50 games at a 50% win rate (we have in fact won 26/52 since the start of last season).

I think, over that 50 game sample, we have played consistently decent, occasionally sensational, football.

Part of the magic of last season was the 'go again' injection of new legs and skills provided by Lingard. Also, a purchase started to be better tuned into the first team, in Benrahma.

Vlasic could make a deeper impact than Ben, who threw in a few assists, but, iirc, only scored one league goal.

Then, our loan in won't need to replicate the Lingard miracle of 9 goals and a few assists - one at least mesmerising - but get away with a splash nonetheless.

It's do-able, but the competition has got stiffer since Conte arrived and Ole and the wheel parted company.

In Moyes, Declan, Pablo and Kurt we trust.

User avatar
sendô
Posts: 38974
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: in the pessimistically optimistic camp.
Has liked: 770 likes
Total likes: 692 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by sendô » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:18 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:28 pm
We have picked up the same number of points from the last 4 that we did from the same games last year. We finished 6th.

We'll lose tomorrow and it will still be the same, except from 5 games.

We haven't played well in most of our recent games, but we're still 4th.

We'll click back into gear at some point, and we still have three of the bottom 4 to play before halfway.

Spurs and Arsenal's form against top 12 teams is abysmal - 11 losses in 18.
Indeed, the big improvement on last year is turning over Liverpool at home - who are much better this season than last, whilst the main slip in losing to Brentford narrowly, and losing away to a much improved wolves and not beating them 3-2. Although our GD is much better this season so far.

User avatar
brooking_1980
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:04 am
Has liked: 19 likes
Total likes: 17 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by brooking_1980 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:16 am

Feels like Arsenal and Tottenham on an upward trajectory. We are stalling........We need something from Chelsea today else think we'll drop out Top 4 and won't re-enter.

User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 38240
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Twisting, Shouting
Has liked: 379 likes
Total likes: 596 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by prophet:marginal » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:06 pm

The present league table has

Arsenal in 5th, and
Wolves in 6th.

They, together, have scored one more goal than West Ham United.

Only Man U, 24, and Leicester are in the '20s' in terms of goals scored.

We have 28.

Top 4 On Merit.

User avatar
McKnightmare
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:04 pm
Has liked: 2 likes
Total likes: 30 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by McKnightmare » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:12 pm

Arguably Arsenal aside, the next four or five games are ones you would expect us to win.

We could be well poised come the end of the year. Big factor now is how we're impacted by injuries.

User avatar
paulhs1
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Just South of the Thames
Has liked: 537 likes
Total likes: 300 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by paulhs1 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 pm

McKnightmare wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:12 pm
Arguably Arsenal aside, the next four or five games are ones you would expect us to win.

We could be well poised come the end of the year. Big factor now is how we're impacted by injuries.
Yep, and we now have a huge number of games coming up in the next month.

Big squad rotation required starting with Zagreb on Thursday where we need to play at least 5 of the kids plus Randolph, Noble, Yarmo and Vlasic.

Also need to rest players V Norwich and Burnley as we should be aiming for at least a point at the Emirates.

May also see Kral or Deccers fill in at centre back if Zouma is crocked.

Backs against the wall stuff until January now

User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 38240
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Twisting, Shouting
Has liked: 379 likes
Total likes: 596 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by prophet:marginal » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:21 pm

If Vlasic and Kral can start a match or two, and assimilate well, it is a harsh run of matches, but we're over the hump in the first half of the season in terms of teams definitely finishing above us - and we have 6 points and a single goal defeat to show for games against them.

Arsenal and Spurs aside, all of the other games are those that privately their coaches would be content with a point against us at the moment. Moyes was perfect in his post match comments, basically using them to tell our lot having a rare up in the dressing room that he knows that they can do better.

He's got years of experience here. It might be finally bearing real fruit.

User avatar
Bubbles Fortuna
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:25 pm
Has liked: 135 likes
Total likes: 644 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:29 pm

paulhs1 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 pm
Yep, and we now have a huge number of games coming up in the next month.

Big squad rotation required starting with Zagreb on Thursday where we need to play at least 5 of the kids plus Randolph, Noble, Yarmo and Vlasic.

Also need to rest players V Norwich and Burnley as we should be aiming for at least a point at the Emirates.

May also see Kral or Deccers fill in at centre back if Zouma is crocked.

Backs against the wall stuff until January now
I think 5 kids plus reserves would be foolish. We want to win the game and keep the confidence going. And what on Earth is Randolph doing starting that one? Keep Areola in goal he needs games.

I wouldn't mind seeing Baptiste or Alese, with Chesters and Perkins start. They should be assisted by Kral, Vlasic, Yarmolenko and Noble.

After that, our defense is in trouble, injuries across, but Fredericks and Masuaku can start with Dawson or Diop.

User avatar
paulhs1
Posts: 6162
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Just South of the Thames
Has liked: 537 likes
Total likes: 300 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by paulhs1 » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:53 pm

Bubbles

Are you suggesting that we play some of the first team players against Zagreb in a dead rubber match and with a game only 3 days later followed by 3 games a week for the rest of the month.

Sorry mate but it ain't gonna happen

User avatar
Bubbles Fortuna
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:25 pm
Has liked: 135 likes
Total likes: 644 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:06 pm

paulhs1 wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:53 pm
Bubbles

Are you suggesting that we play some of the first team players against Zagreb in a dead rubber match and with a game only 3 days later followed by 3 games a week for the rest of the month.

Sorry mate but it ain't gonna happen
I'm suggesting we don't go full Nottingham Forest against them. There's paying fans to think about, as well as players like Vlasic, Kral, Noble, Fredericks, Yarmolenko and Areola need games. It's only really up front and in defense where we're struggling.

User avatar
LeonRivers
Posts: 9687
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Way out of your league
Has liked: 465 likes
Total likes: 153 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by LeonRivers » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:11 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:06 pm
There's paying fans to think about.
If David Moyes bases his team selection on the fans he is a disgrace. No chance that happens. Would be completely unprofessional.

User avatar
LeonRivers
Posts: 9687
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Way out of your league
Has liked: 465 likes
Total likes: 153 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by LeonRivers » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:13 pm

CB is the big worry, for me. Do we risk either of our fit first-team CBs for this? Playing two untested kids is a gamble.

User avatar
Bubbles Fortuna
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:25 pm
Has liked: 135 likes
Total likes: 644 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:17 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:11 pm
If David Moyes bases his team selection on the fans he is a disgrace. No chance that happens. Would be completely unprofessional.
I disagree, writing was on the wall for Allardyce after the Nottingham Forest game.

I agree about CBs though, I don't want to play Baptiste and Alese but we can't risk another injury.

User avatar
LeonRivers
Posts: 9687
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Way out of your league
Has liked: 465 likes
Total likes: 153 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by LeonRivers » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:17 pm

I reckon we'll see Perkins starting up front. Moyes confirmed he probably would have started the last game if we'd beaten Genk and already qualified.

Yarmo and Vlasic certain to start. Benrahma or Lanzini making up the three. Noble and Kral nailed on for CDM.

No idea how he'll find a suitable back 4. I guess it depends on how bad Johnson's injury is. If he's OK for next weekend we'll probably see Masuaku at LB. Ashby may get a shout at RB. Two from Dawson, Diop, Alese, Baptiste for CB. Can we risk Dawson and Diop in a dead rubber? Big decisions to make, here.

User avatar
Bubbles Fortuna
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:25 pm
Has liked: 135 likes
Total likes: 644 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:20 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:17 pm
I reckon we'll see Perkins starting up front. Moyes confirmed he probably would have started the last game if we'd beaten Genk and already qualified.

Yarmo and Vlasic certain to start. Benrahma or Lanzini making up the three. Noble and Kral nailed on for CDM.

No idea how he'll find a suitable back 4. I guess it depends on how bad Johnson's injury is. If he's OK for next weekend we'll probably see Masuaku at LB. Ashby may get a shout at RB. Two from Dawson, Diop, Alese, Baptiste for CB. Can we risk Dawson and Diop in a dead rubber? Big decisions to make, here.
Yeah I agree, though Fredericks is fit isn't he?

One of Alese or Baptiste with someone else.

Maybe Kral could drop in, Chesters alongside Noble in midfield?

User avatar
il_martello_di_genovesi
Posts: 13581
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:11 pm
Location: genova è solo blucerchiata.
Has liked: 118 likes
Total likes: 306 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:20 pm

We don’t have to go full Forest, but we need to change where we can. Whatever young CB’s we can use should be given a chance as they may need to act as cover in the league and would rather they got some minutes. We have Noble, Kral, Vlasic, Yarmolenko, Fredericks (if fit) to come in aswell, so would only be a couple of younger ones in there.

Depending on what is the issue with Zouma, I wouldn’t want to risk Dawson and Diop in a game that doesn’t really matter too much. We’ve got plenty of games with 2 main CB’s now as it stands.

User avatar
Bubbles Fortuna
Posts: 4673
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:25 pm
Has liked: 135 likes
Total likes: 644 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:21 pm

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:20 pm
We don’t have to go full Forest, but we need to change where we can. Whatever young CB’s we can use should be given a chance as they may need to act as cover in the league and would rather they got some minutes. We have Noble, Kral, Vlasic, Yarmolenko, Fredericks (if fit) to come in aswell, so would only be a couple of younger ones in there.

Depending on what is the issue with Zouma, I wouldn’t want to risk Dawson and Diop in a game that doesn’t really matter too much. We’ve got plenty of games with 2 main CB’s now as it stands.
Exactly, a couple of youngsters, the original post suggested 5+.

User avatar
LeonRivers
Posts: 9687
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Way out of your league
Has liked: 465 likes
Total likes: 153 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by LeonRivers » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:23 pm

Great news if Fredericks is fit for midweek. Ashby made the bench ahead of him today, so I assumed he wasn't ready yet. I'd be much happier with 2 young CBs if there's senior full backs either side and senior CDMs in front of them.

User avatar
il_martello_di_genovesi
Posts: 13581
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:11 pm
Location: genova è solo blucerchiata.
Has liked: 118 likes
Total likes: 306 likes

Re: Who Will Beat Us To Top 4?

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi » Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:26 pm

No point going with a full team of them. Doesn’t really help their development. The CB’s would certainly benefit from having the likes of Noble infront of them and an International in Kral for example. Perkins or Chesters having Vlasic and Yarmolenko in there with them. We can mix it up and still put out a decent enough team. With 3 defensive injuries now though, it’s the one area I would look to one or two of them.

Anyway, staying in topic, the injuries might be the thing that beats us to top 4, so hopefully they aren’t too bad or we can get through to January.

Post Reply