Need a new car

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mumbles87
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Re: Need a new car

Post by mumbles87 »

That's where leasing comes in.

I paid £295 a month for the hrv on pcp. Bought at the end and sold to my mother in law at the value I paid for it

The Corsa was £900 down. £275 a month for 4 years

Only paying for the depreciation (well was before covid prob worth a fortune now)

But that set £300 I've paid for 1.5 years on the Corsa now and 3 years ok the hrv so always gone out.

My £150 a petrol however has dropped to £20 electric and £30 aside for the diesel car which gets filled up every 4 months.

The problem with electric cars is habbits. People want exactly the same as we have now. The fact is it will never be the same. Some compromise is needed. For me personally I love it. Plug in at night wake up full and off to work I go .. repeat a few days later

Others it doesn't suit

But as Rory says in another video whilst we focus on range it's not just about range it's about how fast it can be recharged. We are seeing 250kwh chargers .. my car can only handle 100kwh speed but from 20-80% on one of them 20 mins

So say every 100 miles you stop for 20 mins .. that's on a basic 2 year old Corsa which is probably old tech now

It's only going to improve in time.

The ford Mustang e is nice big battery on that plenty of range

One thing got to remember aswell is those who get company provided cars, they switch to electric and that will save em in tax and fuel

But with my figures above under £300 a month to get to work .. lease a similar petrol car the fuel would be a lot more right now than £20 a month .. even if the lease was half the petrol would be nearer £200 a month at today's prices

I'd rather just fill up on the drive in my situation, but everyone's is different
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Re: Need a new car

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

dasnutnock3 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:53 pm Yup, by any measure, a revolting tactic by his dealer. I think he'll go to the ombudsman, and will probably win, but he's at least in a position to be fairly picky (doesn't use the motor very much, hence why he's going electric). It's those of us who don't have a choice that I feel for.
Even if he loses, assuming it's the Financial Ombudsman he goes to, they will charge the firm £750 to investigate the case (regardless of outcome) if it's the 4th or more case within a year. Silver linings and all that!
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Re: Need a new car

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One of the best bits of reasoning to get around the limited range I heard was 'If you need to go distances, hire a car'.

Right. So I'm going to pay north of 500 a month for a proper family sized EV motor, and pay probably the same amount for a week or more if I want to take the family away on holiday and leave it on the driveway :?
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Re: Need a new car

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mumbles87 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:59 pm That's where leasing comes in.
Back to this Skoda...

£535 a month on a lease with 15k miles a year. Oh, and the small matter of a £5053 payment up-front... :shock:

Cheapest is over 2 grand down, (3 months upfront + 240 'admin' fee) and that magical 600 month payment. If I want maintenance on any of the plans, that 'only' an extra 42.29 a month.

And that's over 48 months.

Top range Qashqai, 1 month down, over 48 months with initial payment of 560 quid (including admin fee), maintenance included - 326 smackers.

TBH, I'm sorely tempted :grin: :eyes:
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Re: Need a new car

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-DL- wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:48 pm One of the best bits of reasoning to get around the limited range I heard was 'If you need to go distances, hire a car'.

Right. So I'm going to pay north of 500 a month for a proper family sized EV motor, and pay probably the same amount for a week or more if I want to take the family away on holiday and leave it on the driveway :?
Thing is that's how things need to be thought out but in reality it doesn't work

End of day the world is in a mess and we have to cut back of fossil fuels. That's a fact.

We should really get public transport then hire a car other end to save on ownership in a dream world but it's just too much of a pain in reality and expensive way of doing it

Guy I work with has a leaf and his second car is the vauxhall electric 7 seater...that's his plan if long trips hire one..

Could say same about holidays why pay all that in a mortgage to only bugger off on holiday as soon as you get time off leaving your house you paid for empty

Nissan orginally gave people a petrol car twice a year for long trips

Now cars are coming with ranges that will do it

But again..it's not for everyone.

Car companies have held EVs back. The cost of lithium isn't as high as it was like 5 years ago.. but the prices haven't dropped to show it

Maybe if the world hadn't been pushing the wrong agenda for 3 decades we might not be in the mess we are

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62225696
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Re: Need a new car

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mumbles87 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:09 pm
We should really get public transport then hire a car other end to save on ownership in a dream world but it's just too much of a pain in reality and expensive way of doing it
What if you are the public transport? You know yourself, you can't get in if you start before the first service goes out.

How do you take an autistic child that has to have an almost carbon copy of his bedroom taken away?

The mortgage thing is a poor comparison tbh.

I get you want to advocate EVs, but as things stand - for the most part, it's not going to work for more people than it works for - and that's before we get in to people that need EVs that live in terraced houses with on-street parking, blocks of flats, etc, etc.

Not a problem for someone that does a short commute and has a house with a driveway.

As you say, it's not for everyone, but in reality - it won't work for hardly anyone apart from people like yourself, or old people that do 3k a year. For average Joe Public, so much has to change before it becomes feasible - and when it does become feasible for the masses, you think energy is expensive now?

It won't just be EV owners having to stump up the cost of dwindling tax revenues from oil based fuels. It will be all of us.
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Re: Need a new car

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EVs aren’t the saviour they’re portrayed as. Their main green advantage is lack of distributed emissions, that’s it. The environmental damage being done in making the batteries is significant, too. Improving air quality is a big win, but let’s not kid ourselves that this is the solution.

Cars themselves need a complete rethink - absolutely no need for them to contain so many materials. Designs haven’t changed in decades. 2-tonnes of steel with seats and a stereo that always wants to play Radio 1.

Anyway, they’ll all be in landfill in about 25 years when this tech cycle is complete, and a newer and supposedly better alternative is available (hydrogen cells, wind up clockwork, Mr Fusion etc). And that tech will be just as environmentally damaging, one way or another.
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Re: Need a new car

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-DL- wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:35 pm What if you are the public transport? You know yourself, you can't get in if you start before the first service goes out.

How do you take an autistic child that has to have an almost carbon copy of his bedroom taken away?

The mortgage thing is a poor comparison tbh.

I get you want to advocate EVs, but as things stand - for the most part, it's not going to work for more people than it works for - and that's before we get in to people that need EVs that live in terraced houses with on-street parking, blocks of flats, etc, etc.

Not a problem for someone that does a short commute and has a house with a driveway.

As you say, it's not for everyone, but in reality - it won't work for hardly anyone apart from people like yourself, or old people that do 3k a year. For average Joe Public, so much has to change before it becomes feasible - and when it does become feasible for the masses, you think energy is expensive now?

It won't just be EV owners having to stump up the cost of dwindling tax revenues from oil based fuels. It will be all of us.
Point is the public transport should be better. It should be publically funded and run well so that it's actually a viable option for people

In reality if your out of London then car is the only way to travel .

However if people have 2 cars a EV would suit as second one providing they don't go more than 150 miles in a day wouldn't even need to charge

Like I said we use ours constantly . A lot more than we thought

The Alhambra bearly does 3000 miles a year since the ev arrived
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Re: Need a new car

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mumbles87 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:03 pm The Alhambra bearly does 3000 miles a year since the ev arrived
Our family car does around that, sometimes even more in two months, and that wouldn't change with an EV on the driveway costing 300 quid a month.

Our 2nd car (essential for Mrs DL's work) does around 6000 miles a year, if that, and it costs a little over 100 quid a month. It costs her about 60 a month in fuel, even at today's prices - so even top whack, it stands us in 200 quid a month tops if she does a couple of days out with the boy during the summer holidays or half term. It's only 3 years old. Cost 9.5 grand, with a chunk of that paid off with the PX we had.

The economics of an EV still don't stack up, even as a 6000 mile a year second car.

Come to think of it, the payments and running costs of both of our motors don't cost much more than a solitary small EV.
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Re: Need a new car

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-DL- wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:12 pm Our family car does around that, sometimes even more in two months, and that wouldn't change with an EV on the driveway costing 300 quid a month.

Our 2nd car (essential for Mrs DL's work) does around 6000 miles a year, if that, and it costs a little over 100 quid a month. It costs her about 60 a month in fuel, even at today's prices - so even top whack, it stands us in 200 quid a month tops if she does a couple of days out with the boy during the summer holidays or half term. It's only 3 years old. Cost 9.5 grand, with a chunk of that paid off with the PX we had.

The economics of an EV still don't stack up, even as a 6000 mile a year second car.

Come to think of it, the payments and running costs of both of our motors don't cost much more than a solitary small EV.
Isn't that based on a new ev?

What about a second hand Zoe for example with a 150 mile range or whatever it is they have .. really good little car
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Re: Need a new car

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How many people have a drive way where they can charge an electric car? That is a massive issue, equal to cost and range.
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Re: Need a new car

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jastons wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:19 pm How many people have a drive way where they can charge an electric car? That is a massive issue, equal to cost and range.
What a driveway full stop? Not sure. However guy down road has a Tesla .. no driveway and has a cable coming over pavement (covered by a anti trip thing)

Now you might say illegal but I'm yet to find the actual law against it providing people can not trip over it lol

Crazy

Once batteries are standard of 300 miles .. home charging not such an issue

Another guy at work bought a second hand Tesla model s.. he doesn't have a charger at home. He has a super charger just round corner and it's free for that car because it was one that had lifetime charging

So 30 mins a week just has a coffee and gets his commuting in
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Re: Need a new car

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mumbles87 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:17 pm Isn't that based on a new ev?

What about a second hand Zoe for example with a 150 mile range or whatever it is they have .. really good little car
18k upwards for one of similar age, mileage and spec at a main agent. Twice the cost of her current 2019 1.2 litre Peugeot 208 Tech Edition with just over 21k on the clock.
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Re: Need a new car

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-DL- wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:46 pm 18k upwards for one of similar age, mileage and spec at a main agent. Twice the cost of her current 2019 1.2 litre Peugeot 208 Tech Edition with just over 21k on the clock.
If can charge at home there are so many other factors that come into play

If ev you can get on the ev tariffs which then you can more your load usage around to run in those hours and save on your electric bill

At night our heat pump tumble is on, dishwasher .. use 6kw in the cheap hours at 5.5p a kw .. saves a fair bit

When we go on the Tesla plan the unit rate is 11p flat so the house saves £150 a month even with all the upfront cost break even with energy prices is 8-10 years after that it's printing money

Car can charge from the excess solar for free if needed

I've been EV for 18 months and I won't buy another ice car again. I'll buy a second hand ev then run the Alhambra until the numbers don't add and lease a big Tesla or something for the family. The brilliance of filling up without leaving the house is just useful
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Re: Need a new car

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mumbles87 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:53 pm The brilliance of filling up without leaving the house is just useful
Yeah, because filling up at service station half a mile down the road that you go past on the way home from work is just so inconvenient, it's worth paying for something that costs twice as much to buy even used and over the ownership saves you a grand sum of f*** all, whilst having a range that wouldn't even get you to Chessington World of Adventures and back.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

That's without the additional cost of getting all this 'moneysaving' stuff purchased and installed in the first place.

I wish I was still in sales, because punters like you would be printing money, not spunking tens of thousands of pounds on an EV that wouldn't get you anywhere of significance and back and all this solar and Tesla gubbins.

You've been had mate, and I'm gutted I never sold it to you - still, you're happy with it and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

How many years before you break even you reckon, let alone make a profit?
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Re: Need a new car

Post by mushy »

-DL- wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:00 pm

Top range Qashqai, 1 month down, over 48 months with initial payment of 560 quid (including admin fee), maintenance included - 326 smackers.

TBH, I'm sorely tempted :grin: :eyes:
Bloody hell so am I!
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Re: Need a new car

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-DL- wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:08 pm Yeah, because filling up at service station half a mile down the road that you go past on the way home from work is just so inconvenient, it's worth paying for something that costs twice as much to buy even used and over the ownership saves you a grand sum of **** all, whilst having a range that wouldn't even get you to Chessington World of Adventures and back.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

That's without the additional cost of getting all this 'moneysaving' stuff purchased and installed in the first place.

I wish I was still in sales, because punters like you would be printing money, not spunking tens of thousands of pounds on an EV that wouldn't get you anywhere of significance and back and all this solar and Tesla gubbins.

You've been had mate, and I'm gutted I never sold it to you - still, you're happy with it and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

How many years before you break even you reckon, let alone make a profit?
Run the numbers yourself.

The solar set up with a telsa powerwall £16000 fully installed.

The powerwall is awaiting stock should be here August.

Until then the solar has been running and thus far £150 saved off my bills. (Since 9th may) now that's at my old rate of 14p a unit. What's the standard variable ATM 28p? That would be £268 saved

When it goes up to 40p £374 saved


Now that's by the by. When powerwall arrives I shift to the tesla plan. 11p in 11p out . So all my solar will make me being paid to be in the summer winter bills cost less but based on actual usage Telsa plan for a year £1077 a year , if I go onto the current go (octupus tarif) rates it's 40p day rate works out £2328 a year

£1300 a year saving on the bill at current rates

Add in the sell back to the grid of say 3000kw (should be 4500 but let's round it well down) that's another £330 a year

So that's 10 years break even at today's prices.

So yes the numbers do add up.

And the car numbers? Well let's be honest considering cars are a luxury and I could just buy a £1000 car and run until it's breaks then any car over that doesn't compute number wise

But I like my cheaper running costs for the car and the house

I'm a high electric user and it's saving me a fortune already even before the battery

I don't think you can knock £1600 saving a year .. even if it's cost me up front to install the equipment but come 10 years time that money I am paying to the mortgage to finance the equipment goes off my bills..

As you can see from actual figures the energy bill will rise regardless but rather than paying a faceless company I've invested in my own property.

I could have gone for a different cheaper battery but the key was tesla. Can go outside so saves space and is the only battery that gets on the Tesla plan which saves the most money.
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Re: Need a new car

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Fair play mumbles.
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Re: Need a new car

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

Mumbles, how long is the 11p stuff with the Tesla gadget fixed for?

Sounds like a decent set up to me but I'd be really worried long term with such a high outlay.

Personally, i see it playing out that EVs will end up with around 600 odd miles range as standard, with more premium batteries giving 1k+. Charging/swapping will be quick enough to not be any more inconvenient than filling up at a garage.

However, the government is going to have to fill that tax hole somewhere. Will be interesting to see how they do it.
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Re: Need a new car

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As I say mate, good luck to you - but the maths have been worked out simplistically, but realistically, you'll probably be looking at 15 years before breaking even on your 16k outlay, by which point it will probably all be obsolete anyway, (and that's not if it isn't in 10 years) but I'll probably be toes up and sprinkled under a waterfall in The Brecon Beacons by then, so I'll never know.

I genuinely do hope this pays for itself and your outlay was worth it - but it reminds me of back in the day in the early 2000s when I was convincing punters to stick sodding great solar arrays on their roofs and making a mint from it by selling it back to the grid and not having to pay electricity bills - and we all know how that turned out in the end - but I genuinely wish you good luck.
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