West Ham Utd 3-2 Liverpool (06/11/21)

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prophet:marginal
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:17 pm

BigFatSam wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:00 pm
Yeah he tells him to “****ing get up you wimp, get up you pussy” I believe. Actually respect him for the follow up trying to apologise though.
Respect for trying to apologise? Not from me. Full disrespect for even thinking Ogbonna would pretend to be hurt.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Crossd_Hammrs » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:27 pm

BigFatSam wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:00 pm
Yeah he tells him to “****ing get up you wimp, get up you pussy” I believe. Actually respect him for the follow up trying to apologise though.
After another chat with the ref he goes back to Jota and gives him a pat on the back and strokes his neck a few times.

Not content with getting away with that, Jota spent the rest of the game whinging at the ref appealling everything that happened.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by WestSam » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:13 pm

Crossd_Hammrs wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:27 pm
After another chat with the ref he goes back to Jota and gives him a pat on the back and strokes his neck a few times.

Not content with getting away with that, Jota spent the rest of the game whinging at the ref appealling everything that happened.
It's funny, I didn't believe it was possible to dislike them any more than I already do....seems it is. :newthumb:

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:15 pm

Vic_Watson wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:04 pm
Just a sh*t Declan Rice.
Henderson's not even in the same league as a **** Declan.

He's a **** James Milner.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by continental skills » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:47 pm

PF. wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:09 am
I'm guessing homework had been done on Alisson and it showed him struggling with the in-swingers on his goal line - two of our goals came from exactly that.
Sure looks that way. And now every other manager in the league has seen it and will attempt to exploit it. That at least goes part way towards explaining Klopp begging for more protection for his goalkeeper - all his moaning about the first goal is about trying to get referees in upcoming matches to blow for a free-kick whenever anyone jumps near Allison. Will be interesting to observe how well they listen to his plea.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by sendô » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:52 pm

continental skills wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:47 pm
Sure looks that way. And now every other manager in the league has seen it and will attempt to exploit it. That at least goes part way towards explaining Klopp begging for more protection for his goalkeeper - all his moaning about the first goal is about trying to get referees in upcoming matches to blow for a free-kick whenever anyone jumps near Allison. Will be interesting to observe how well they listen to his plea.
Almost certainly this is what it is about. Klopp knows he can't just go and buy a new keeper, and Allison isn't suddenly going to get better over night, and so he has to try and con referees into trying to save his keeper's blushes.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Pete647580 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:54 pm

continental skills wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:47 pm
Sure looks that way. And now every other manager in the league has seen it and will attempt to exploit it. That at least goes part way towards explaining Klopp begging for more protection for his goalkeeper - all his moaning about the first goal is about trying to get referees in upcoming matches to blow for a free-kick whenever anyone jumps near Allison. Will be interesting to observe how well they listen to his plea.
MOTD2 called them out on this. Defence didn't give him any protection, and he didn't demand any. I got the impression from the comments that this is pretty basic stuff - and Klopp should be embarrassed.

Be interesting to see whether they sort it out for the next game.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by stu1 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:12 pm

prophet:marginal wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:07 am
Well, at his best, his a league-winning rock at the heart of that defence.

He didn't look like that to me this weekend, from facial expression to the manner by which he did defend the three corners. Just look at his position and his general effort in terms of the third goal. Looks like he is asking Declan to dance.

What he isn't doing is organising his defence, despite surely knowing that a third goal might kill off the game.

He's just not at his best.

He isn't the best in the world. Not at the moment.
Ok maybe he could have done better at corners but he is only one man and when you’ve got Ogbonna/Dawson, Zouma, Rice, Soucek and Antonio all to deal with there is only so much he can do. Especially if your keeper has turned all flappy and your other defenders (Mane and Trent) completely let their man go. On the third Rice blocks him from back pedalling which take him out of the game, not sure what that has to do with dancing, more likely a clever tactic from our coaching team.

In open play when he had Antonio or Bowen running up him he dealt with them with ease on numerous occasions. The way he neutralised Antonio was very impressive, no defender in the league is capable of doing it so easily.

Next time we play Liverpool if I’m Moyes I’d tell our attacking players to only try and dribble past VVD if there is literally no other option, as based on yesterday there is little point in trying.

With due respect I’ve seen a number of posters all saying he was outstanding, there is a reason for that.
Last edited by stu1 on Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:14 pm

You can say Van Dijk dealt with Antonio, but in doing so he gave away two corners which both lead to goals.

In my opinion that puts Antonio as the winner in that duel.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by sendô » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:16 pm

Van Dijk played well and was probably their best player, but he certainly didn't "deal" with Antonio. I thought they had an interesting battle where they both came out on top at various times.

The rest of their back 4 are gash at defending.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:18 pm

sendô wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:16 pm
Van Dijk played well and was probably their best player, but he certainly didn't "deal" with Antonio. I thought they had an interesting battle where they both came out on top at various times.

The rest of their back 4 are gash at defending.
I agree, Van Dijk's biggest issue all game was Alexander-Arnold completely abandoning his defensive duties to go and play in Central Midfield. We dinked a ball over the top into space on our left to Fornals, Antonio or Benrahma countless times, which dragged Van Dijk out to the left to cover. Really poor.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by stu1 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:18 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:14 pm
You can say Van Dijk dealt with Antonio, but in doing so he gave away two corners which both lead to goals.

In my opinion that puts Antonio as the winner in that duel.
That’s a very simple way of looking at it.

For the third Antonio was clean through, VVD catches up with him and quite easily blocks his shot.

If that makes Antonio the winner in your eyes fair enough, but that’s incredibly generous. If Antonio is against 9/10 defenders he’s too powerful and quick to be tackled.

I can’t remember the first corner, but preventing Antonio getting a shot on goal is hardly a lose in a duel. Otherwise Dawson has made a career out of losing duels by putting in some fantastic blocks.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:22 pm

stu1 wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:18 pm
That’s a very simple way of looking at it.

For the third Antonio was clean through, VVD catches up with him and quite easily blocks his shot.

If that makes Antonio the winner in your eyes fair enough, but that’s incredibly generous. If Antonio is against 9/10 defenders he’s too powerful and quick to be tackled.

I can’t remember the first corner, but preventing Antonio getting a shot on goal is hardly a lose in a duel. Otherwise Dawson has made a career out of losing duels by putting in some fantastic blocks.
The main issue with this little debate is that it's not really Antonio Vs Van Dijk, Van Dijk was forced to go and deal with Antonio and give away a corner because Alexander-Arnold is an inept defender. Really Liverpool's defense are the losers here and it made Van Dijk look worse when in reality he had a decent game.

Van Dijk, in our team, would be our best player.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by London Fields Hammer » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:24 pm

Allison screwed up on all three goals, but I do wish Fab had his kicking ability :smiler:

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Xabbu » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:36 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:22 pm
The main issue with this little debate is that it's not really Antonio Vs Van Dijk, Van Dijk was forced to go and deal with Antonio and give away a corner because Alexander-Arnold is an inept defender. Really Liverpool's defense are the losers here and it made Van Dijk look worse when in reality he had a decent game.

Van Dijk, in our team, would be our best player.
Did you you not see the snide pull back when he was about to cut across him, again unpunished. In this instance thankfully but he wasn’t going to catch him without the little tug which was potentially a red in itself. Still we don’t moan about those things

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Portland Hammer » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:45 pm

A lot of talk about Klopp, L'pool, pundits etc. Who cares? Why do people get so bothered by what MOTD say, or some random ex-footballer?

Not enough about us. There was a spell in the second half of this game, from about minute 50 through to around the 75th minute where I thought "I don't think I've ever seen a West Ham team play better". We were dominating one of the best teams in Europe and terrifying their defence and goalie. It really was impressive - to me anyway. Have we ever played better? Since 1980?

Very glad to hear Moyes got appreciated on Saturday too in the boardroom. That must have been a good feeling for him. Happy for him.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by stu1 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:46 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:22 pm
The main issue with this little debate is that it's not really Antonio Vs Van Dijk, Van Dijk was forced to go and deal with Antonio and give away a corner because Alexander-Arnold is an inept defender. Really Liverpool's defense are the losers here and it made Van Dijk look worse when in reality he had a decent game.

Van Dijk, in our team, would be our best player.
Agreed.

VVD was mopping up for the rest of their defence all game. Antonio kept VVD busy which enabled our other players to exposure the rest of their defences frailties, but when it was VVD isolated one on one with any of our attackers (which happened a number of times) it either ended with VVD winning the ball or him quite easily blocking the shot. There aren't many (any?) defenders that I would back to not get beaten by Antonio/Bowen 1 on 1 in at least four occasions back to back, especially one where Antonio has a head start.

For me VVD was outstanding amongst a lot of disarray. If they had any other defender instead of him we win that game comfortably 4 or 5 with Antonio scoring at least 1.
Last edited by stu1 on Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by Aztec Hammer » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:52 pm

I will say this though. On the run from Antonio that led to the corner for the third goal, he beat VVD off the mark to get through in the first place and there is actually a point where VVD puts an arm on his shoulder to just slow him down enough.

If that was the other way around, I have no doubt Salah would have manipulated the contact and launched himself to the floor, and Dawson/Zouma would have been sent off.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by NedN » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:10 pm

London Fields Hammer wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:24 pm
Allison screwed up on all three goals, but I do wish Fab had his kicking ability :smiler:
He definitely messed up, but Klopp’s utter failure to properly instruct his defense didn’t help.

First goal we put bodies on or near the keeper, as we ALWAYS do on set pieces. For a supposed tactical master, Klopp should have expected us to try this, and had his defenders step in between Oggy and Allison. Even assuming Klopp didn’t do this because he assumed that, as Liverpool, they would be entitled to a foul if someone so much as breathed on Allison, then he still should have made an adjustment mid-game once he saw that the refs weren’t going to give him everything.

On the day the better team and manager won. DM slightly tweaked tactics at half-time so we could exploit the biddippers’ issues to get the win. Klopp failed to fix obvious issues, then blamed it all on the ref. In doing so he wasn’t just covering for Allison, he was covering for himself…pouty and overrated.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread

Post by WCpete » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:01 pm

sendô wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:16 pm
Van Dijk played well and was probably their best player, but he certainly didn't "deal" with Antonio. I thought they had an interesting battle where they both came out on top at various times.

The rest of their back 4 are gash at defending.
TAA is a real conundrum. What do you do with him? He has incredible control of his passing and free kicks, but I don't know that I've seen a fb have a worse defensive game in recent memory. I thought Van Dijk was going to chin him several times.

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