Manchester City 2-1 West Ham Utd (28/11/21)

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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

e17 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:46 pm I think Citeh fans are actually worse than Man U or Chelsea supporters these days
Their problem is that they're Blackburn on steroids, really.

They've also got a really big iceberg, just around the corner. Pep Guardiola, irrespective of what he nowadays represents, was a coup - almost an unrepeatable 'time and place' appointment. He will creak on until the season he wins the CL for them and then bail, by basically collapsing any real interest in the City In The Future Project.

They say Gerrard is the next big thing in the Anfield dugout, almost by wonky Hollywood narrative. Who follows Pep on that kind trajectory? Vieira?

I think they've peaked. They don't carry any international weight.

Boring.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by richneal »

waynepin wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:10 pm 1. a tough game they are really hard working and close down so quickly
2. players like fornals benrahma dont get the time they like and lose the ball or miss pass
3. Bowen came on and lost the ball nearly every time he received it
5. Lanzini though has the touch and passing ability and surely deserves a start now
6. they seem to have an extra player when they have the ball if we have two back defending they have three attacking
7. just a really good side
8. no disgrace today we had a go thats all we can ask
Agree 100% with everything you said there mate. I'd add:
Fabianski had some well dodgy distribution but shot stopping was superb - did well
Considering all their possession and Fabianski's hard work, City still hit the post (twice?) and we cleared a couple off the line: the result was more than fair to us. Could have been four or five for City.

I was gobsmacked when Lanzini hit that no-look worldy. Not giving up - ever - counts for a lot in my book. He needs to start against Brighton.
Like you said we had a go and tried our best so no complaints from me - what did cheer me up was that we tried for every single minute of the game.
Absolutely no shame in losing to a much stronger side.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

I watched the game on a fairly ropey stream whilst baby-sitting on Sunday, and as always with defeats upon reflection and re-watch I have had an opportunity to re-evaluate.

The only spell in the game where they really turned the screw and we were hanging on was in the ten minutes before half time, in the blizzard.

Up until the goal, we were fully in the game. The goal itself is perhaps noted for Masuaku, but it's well worth watching the few seconds beforehand. We seemingly have at least seven players goal-side against three or four as Sterling lays the ball back to Rodri (? - laporte? Cancelo?)) - within a second or two they have five bearing down on our back 4 and goal-side of all our midfield. Not only is Mahrez in space, But Sterling has sprinted off the back of Fornals, and he and Gundogan are both on Johnson, who is caught momentarily wrong side of both of them, Soucek having pointed to him to pick Sterling up.

Image

The team had shuffled to the right and the quick switch plus the far post overload undoes us.

The second goal is a turnover deep in our half, before Lanzini's strike.

In terms of attacking play though, they were of course as cynical as usual with their fouls but we had some malfunctioning going on.

Cresswell's delivery from set plays was uncharacteristically poor. Benrahma was presented with at least half a dozen good opportunities to conjure something, and failed to deliver. Rice burst forward impressively at times, but his technique and ball control let him down on a number of occasions. We were also obviously intent on a very quick counter, forcing the ball forward as quickly as possible on numerous occasions, especially in the first 30, with poor execution killing promising opportunities.

I think Moyes will reach the same conclusion that he reached last season - the player in the #10 role has to produce quality more consistently.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Aceface »

bubbles1966 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:54 am I watched the game on a fairly ropey stream whilst baby-sitting on Sunday
Image

The thought of you watching the final 15 before halftime on a lo-res stream. Mine was ultra HD and I couldn't see f*** all.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

bubbles1966 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:54 amUp until the goal, we were fully in the game.
I just re-watched the first goal again, and it is still mystifying why Masuaku is getting all the grief
If you take a look you will see that when the ball is played out to the left flank, Masuaku is in-field marking Bernardo Silva and you can see him take a look upfield to keep an eye on Kyle Walker who is beginning to move forward. If MAsuaku was stationed out on the left touchline then Bernardo Silva would be completely unmarked in the middle of the pitch - in a far more dangerous position than Mahrez at that point in time

It is a bit much to expect Masuaku to mark Bernardo Silva centrally, keep an eye on a marauding Walker and cover Mahrez on the touchline. If anything, Cresswell should not be positioned on the centre spot and should be much closer to Mahrez and the rest of the defenders shuffle over accordingly. If Masuaku is guilty of anything it is not tracking Bernardo Silva into the box but clearly he got caught in two minds once the ball was switched - and he certainly isn't the only West Ham player that has let a midfielder get behind him

Unfortunately, as Bubbles said the whole team had shuffled to the right and were then caught out when the ball was switched very quickly and efficiently to the other side. Manchester City do that to every team, pretty much every game. It is extremely hard to defend against without parking the bus and having all your midfield sit deep all the time

What is more worrying is that by the time of the goal all of Manchester City's midfielders had got goal side of ours and we were not able to deal with a cross into a crowded penalty box. Why was Gundogan unmarked six yards out?
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

Cresswell is on the penalty spot when the long pass is played - Masuaku is essentially in line with Fornals at the start of the move.

On both goals, there's a possible argument to be made for playing offside more effectively. Not sure it would have stopped the first if we'd held at the 6 yard line instead of going right back onto the goal, on the second we're a bit tardy in getting out from the corner position and that makes the assist easier for them.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by YorksHammer »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:29 am I just re-watched the first goal again, and it is still mystifying why Masuaku is getting all the grief
Because he's a scapegoat for anything bad that happens when he's on the pitch for some, sadly.

I didn't think we were bad, exactly, but I don't think we really adjusted after they scored to give them much in the way of trouble. City basically held the ball for the rest of the match after they scored and we never looked like shifting gears, either the players on the pitch or through use of our substitutes. We set up to try and keep them at arms length and we never stopped trying to do that even when we needed to.

In some ways I'd rather we'd have conceded four while trying to go after City a bit. Antonio caused them a lot of trouble in the early stages, I thought.

Ultimately, it's a not unexpected loss. The only crap bit is that it's now two in a row in the league. We're still fourth (seems baffling to say we're *still* fourth!) but I'd like to see us get back to winning ways against Brighton this week just for a morale boost.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Wilko1304 »

I’d reject the thought that I am just blaming him cos who he is. My argument is that there is a clear system introduced here to be played and his role in it wasn’t fulfilled for the goal.

It is clear on so many occasions that he is making it more of a five in those moments. Fornals holds wide when down his side but comes into the middle to pack midfield more when it isn’t.

Where I will defend him is that he’s been brought in and it’s harder to have sharpness or rhythm, especially as he’s been used differently in each game he’s played this season.

City exposed it well, but it’s a moment he isn’t in the plan and they pounce. You can defend it by pointing out he’s looked at other dangerous positions, and I sympathise with him for that, but the plan had been to make that five and be deeper than Fornals, and he wasn’t in place.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Aceface »

Wasn't Moyes going double spare at Arthur on the sideline immediately after the goal?
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Estuary »

Aceface wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:39 pm Wasn't Moyes going double spare at Arthur on the sideline immediately after the goal?
We will see on Wed night if Arthur is sat in the stands.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

TBF, we were getting fleeced down our left when Fornals played there against Wolves - they were just knocking the ball into acres of space whenever they wanted. The goal in that game came from Podence having all day long to pick a cutback for Jiminez.

Since the international break we have a right side that is struggling to pass the ball to a team-mate, whilst we are trying to patch the left since Ogbonna's injury.

One thing positive was that Masuaku's contribution in possession was vastly superior to the efforts the previous week at Wolves. He passed the ball with pace and positivity and ran comfortably with it. He was probably selected a week too late.

For all that, a team that relies on set pieces can't afford to deliver them poorly and a team that relies on counter attacks can't have the link between midfield and attack failing to produce anything meaningful when opportunities are being presented.

If Cresswell's delivery is off, and Benrahma's play is off, then we will be less potent.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by DenziMart »

Aceface wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:03 am Image

The thought of you watching the final 15 before halftime on a lo-res stream. Mine was ultra HD and I couldn't see **** all.
I was in the stands and could see **** all towards the end of the 1st half!
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by DenziMart »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:29 am I just re-watched the first goal again, and it is still mystifying why Masuaku is getting all the grief
He did completely switch off and just let his man run off him. He was left standing marking space - there was nobody within 10 yards of him when he woke up, then seemed to realise he was completely out of the game and started to run towards the box but it was way too late. He could be a top player, but has a tendency to just switch off at key moments in games. Those 2 or 3 seconds where he just zones out can change games.
But it is unfair to blame the goal solely on him. We had enough defenders in the box who should have done better. He was no more or less responsible than others.
I did watch him after the goal and from then until half time he seemed to just lose it though. There was no urgency from him. Seemed like he was really affected by the snow and just ball watched and ambled about for a bit.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Zman39 »

The first 30 mins we only had one poor pass. Easy to overanalyze a couple plays, especially Masuaku but thought we worked very hard and did well, just came against literally a top 3 team in world.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Albie Beck »

bubbles1966 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:59 pm TBF, we were getting fleeced down our left when Fornals played there against Wolves - they were just knocking the ball into acres of space whenever they wanted. The goal in that game came from Podence having all day long to pick a cutback for Jiminez.
The last three goals we have conceded have had their similarites, especially the unmarked scorer in the middle. Moyes needs to identify and solve the problem.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

Albie Beck wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm The last three goals we have conceded have had their similarites, especially the unmarked scorer in the middle. Moyes needs to identify and solve the problem.
The problem is how much we miss Ogbonna. We need to find the solution for an Ogbonna-less defense. I'm not sure it's Zouma and Dawson.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Wilko1304 »

We defend the box deep and often leave a little bit of space on the edge.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

DenziMart wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:31 pm He did completely switch off and just let his man run off him. He was left standing marking space - there was nobody within 10 yards of him when he woke up, then seemed to realise he was completely out of the game and started to run towards the box but it was way too late. He could be a top player, but has a tendency to just switch off at key moments in games. Those 2 or 3 seconds where he just zones out can change games.
But it is unfair to blame the goal solely on him. We had enough defenders in the box who should have done better. He was no more or less responsible than others.
I did watch him after the goal and from then until half time he seemed to just lose it though. There was no urgency from him. Seemed like he was really affected by the snow and just ball watched and ambled about for a bit.
He was marking Silva infield and keeping an eye on Walker. What he was then guilty of was not tracking Bernardo Silva, in the same way Soucek or Rice didn't track Gundogan and Fornals didn't track Sterling
Given that Bernardo Silva played no part in the goal, Masuaku can't really be blamed for it. Whoever was supposed to be marking Gundogan is more responsible, and so is Cresswell for being far too central and not shifting over towards Mahrez earlier.
However, sometimes when teams are as adept *in possession and at shifting the ball quickly as Man City are, overloads just cannot be prevented however switched on players are. At certain points the attacking team are going to play quickly enough to create the space
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by e17 »

Thoughts and prayers with Pep at this difficult time

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59481660
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Re: ⚽ Manchester City vs West Ham Utd: match thread

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