Russian invasion of Ukraine

KUMB's 24-hour rolling news channel. The Forum in which to discuss non sport-related news and current affairs, including politics.

Moderators: Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks

Post Reply
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 25149
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 5556 likes
Total likes: 3053 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 11:32 am
So , that's Javelins , 777 Howitzers , Himars , Patriots , Switchblade Drones , Challenger and Leopard Tanks and Storm Shadows - all swatted away by Russian shovels , a few convicts and some mercenaries - wait till the real Russian Military show up .
Tbf Tomos how could the West know of the might of Russia. I mean to date they have blown up 150% of the M777s sent to Ukraine, 250% of the HIMARS and all 12 of the four Patriot batteries.

They also took out two Leopard 2s in Ukraine before they had even been sent!

Russian armour brigades have become so expert at blowing up javelins that they don’t even bother to send tanks anymore and they are so bored of blowing up stingers and other Western MANPADS that their aircraft no longer fly over Ukraine.

But I’m sure the 5% of the Russian military not currently deployed in Ukraine and their T14s will tip the balance… now if only they could remember where they left the advanced engines their General in charge of procurement “bought”…
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 25149
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 5556 likes
Total likes: 3053 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

alf git wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 5:16 pm Unverified rumours of a shopping trip.

From a layman's perspective the vehicles in the two pictures don't appear to be the same.
Yes I think that one has been debunked. The more worrying aspect is that they were only 4km away from a base housing nuclear warheads. Thankfully now evacuated by the Russians.

As amusing as it is to see Putin embarrassed by this raid, the CVs of some of those involved tell you they are not people you want getting their hands on nuclear weapons!
User avatar
Alan Pardew's Dad
Posts: 2958
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Bristol
Has liked: 829 likes
Total likes: 669 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Alan Pardew's Dad »

alf git wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 5:16 pm From a layman's perspective the vehicles in the two pictures don't appear to be the same.
On closer inspection, they do look the same. The truck has one aerial on the back left while the trailer has four aerials, one on each corner.
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
Posts: 32777
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .
Has liked: 2640 likes
Total likes: 1746 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

Bend it like Repka wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 12:22 pm Is there actually a factual point to that post Tomos?

It's hard to understand whether it's critical, tongue in cheek or just more nonsense



Probably a combination of all 3 , you try to work it out , it's all beyond a doddery old git like me .

Air Force Secretary , Frank Kendall had this to say ....

F-16s Not a ‘Game-Changer’ for Ukraine But ‘Something They Need’

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/kenda ... r-ukraine/


A few weeks back the F 16s were off the table for fear of escalating tensions with Russia , now after everything else has failed they've been given the green light - good luck .

'' The F-16 is a reasonable option for them for a whole bunch of reasons,” Kendall said. “It will give Ukrainians an increment of capabilities that they don’t have right now. But it’s not going to be a dramatic game-changer, as far as I’m concerned, for their total military capabilities.”

So far, Ukraine’s air defenses have been effective at preventing the Russians from gaining control of the skies over the country. But the British government said May 22 that Russia is trying to establish a new attack aviation group that would include Su-24s, Su-34s, and attack helicopters. ''
User avatar
EvilC
Posts: 18221
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...
Has liked: 2627 likes
Total likes: 1178 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by EvilC »

TOMOS, I think I speak on behalf at least one other poster here - please can you state clearly whatever it is you are trying to say, without any of deliberately vague stuff? I find reading the it very frustrating, you can probably gather from some of the replies that others do too. Not that I’m a moderator here or anything.

Cheers :thup:
User avatar
Bend it like Repka
Posts: 15838
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:05 pm
Location: Shaking my head in despair at it all.
Has liked: 357 likes
Total likes: 794 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bend it like Repka »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 11:12 pm Probably a combination of all 3 , you try to work it out , it's all beyond a doddery old git like me .
Personally I'm not in the game of working out posts. I'm interested in discussing Ukraine and countering arguments where they arise.

All you seem to be doing is posting wild opinions and facts, ignoring any counter points that are put to you, and then doing the same 24 hours later in a cycle of rinse and repeat.

If you don't want nicknames like 'Chemical Ali' then maybe you need to engage on issues rather than just posting from a stance and sticking your fingers in your ears.....
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
Posts: 32777
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .
Has liked: 2640 likes
Total likes: 1746 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

EvilC wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 11:35 pm TOMOS, I think I speak on behalf at least one other poster here - please can you state clearly whatever it is you are trying to say, without any of deliberately vague stuff?

Cheers :thup:

Listen , I'm old , and on drugs and we old people on drugs can come across as vague sometimes - what I was trying to say is this , I don't think the US [ I mean NATO ] have much of a strategy here , they keep sending stuff and stuff keeps getting blown up - Biden said that he was totally against sending F-16s to Ukraine as did Sunak for fear of escalating the war with Russia , now they're sending F-16s . They're resorting to sending saboteurs over to Belgorod killing innocent civilians , Joe Biden won't be happy with that .

What exactly is the plan and when's this Spring Offensive starting , the wild garlic and bluebells are out here , it'll be summer soon ?
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 25149
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 5556 likes
Total likes: 3053 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:30 am Listen , I'm old , and on drugs and we old people on drugs can come across as vague sometimes - what I was trying to say is this , I don't think the US [ I mean NATO ] have much of a strategy here , they keep sending stuff and stuff keeps getting blown up - Biden said that he was totally against sending F-16s to Ukraine as did Sunak for fear of escalating the war with Russia , now they're sending F-16s . They're resorting to sending saboteurs over to Belgorod killing innocent civilians , Joe Biden won't be happy with that .

What exactly is the plan and when's this Spring Offensive starting , the wild garlic and bluebells are out here , it'll be summer soon ?
Red lines move. Russia has made plenty of "if you do this then..." threats and nothing much has changed so those arming Ukraine see this, pause a bit and then shift their red lines a bit more.

F-16s are also less about escalation (they'd last about a minute and a half in the occupied bits of Ukraine) and more about practical points like training, maintenance and having suitable facilities to fly them from. All those questions needed to be answered and it seems they have been.

Not sure what the stuff keeps getting blown up comment is about. It is war and tools of war get blown up. The losses of some bits of kit have been higher than others due to the nature of the current fighting which suits Russia and their seemingly endless blood and shells.

As for the counter offensive, it was still muddy in Ukraine as of a couple of weeks ago. End of May, early June was always the likeliest timing. What currently look like shaping operations are on-going to move the pieces around the board. The raid was likely part of that. How involved Ukraine were and therefore what the political fall out will be I don't think anyone can answer. Using disgruntled Russians does appear to be a masterstroke in this regard.
User avatar
EvilC
Posts: 18221
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...
Has liked: 2627 likes
Total likes: 1178 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by EvilC »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:30 am Listen , I'm old , and on drugs and we old people on drugs can come across as vague sometimes - what I was trying to say is this , I don't think the US [ I mean NATO ] have much of a strategy here , they keep sending stuff and stuff keeps getting blown up - Biden said that he was totally against sending F-16s to Ukraine as did Sunak for fear of escalating the war with Russia , now they're sending F-16s . They're resorting to sending saboteurs over to Belgorod killing innocent civilians , Joe Biden won't be happy with that .

What exactly is the plan and when's this Spring Offensive starting , the wild garlic and bluebells are out here , it'll be summer soon ?
The war goes on, plan's change. What is the evidence that all this stuff keeps getting blown up (although some of it is likely to, since there is a war on and that's what tends to happen).

You'll find out what the plan is after the event, as handing out a power point to the world explaining what you are going to do probably isn't the best idea. The last counter went pretty well for Ukraine.
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
Posts: 32777
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .
Has liked: 2640 likes
Total likes: 1746 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

EvilC wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:39 am The war goes on, plan's change. The last counter went pretty well for Ukraine.

Well , good luck to them then . I hope they get their country back .
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
Posts: 32777
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .
Has liked: 2640 likes
Total likes: 1746 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

Came across this group on my travels the other day , perhaps our fellow Kumbers from the US can shed some light on them -

They're The Eisenhower Media Network -

Couldn't tell you whether they're Republicans or Democrats or Apolitical , I honestly don't know - anyway , a bunch of them sent Washington a signed letter on behalf of the EMN calling for a re-think on the war in Ukraine - I doubt whether it'll get read let alone listened to but I thought it interesting nonetheless .

'' The Eisenhower Media Network (EMN)
is an organization of expert former military, intelligence, and civilian national security officials.

Our experts offer credible, independent, and critical analysis grounded in real-world practitioner experience and years of sustained study and scholarship.

EMN seeks to reach broad, cross-partisan audiences in diverse media outlets and among the American people – who increasingly sense that U.S. foreign policy today is not making them, or the world, safer. ''


https://eisenhowermedianetwork.org/about/
User avatar
Bend it like Repka
Posts: 15838
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:05 pm
Location: Shaking my head in despair at it all.
Has liked: 357 likes
Total likes: 794 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bend it like Repka »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 10:30 am They're resorting to sending saboteurs over to Belgorod killing innocent civilians , Joe Biden won't be happy with that .
Still he continues.....

Being old and on drugs doesn't give you a free pass I'm afraid. Where is your source for this claim?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ne-strikes

"a Russian base called Belgorod-22 was shelled, leading to the deaths of two Russian soldiers."

The Belgorod regional governor, Vyacheslav Gladkov, said a civilian had been killed by “the Ukrainian armed forces”.

So even the local Russian official has only said one civilian (unverified), while your post clearly is trying to make Ukraine (not even proved to be responsible for this attack) as guilty as Russia when it comes to indiscriminate killing of civilians.

Also what does resorting to mean? Their homeland was invaded. Are you saying while their cities are attacked daily, while they continue to unearth war crimes, there are some rules Ukraine should be sticking to, while Russia does as it wishes?

Carry on, I'm sure you will pretend this post hasn't happened either and move swiftly onto the next piece of balanced analysis....
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 25149
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 5556 likes
Total likes: 3053 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:07 pm Came across this group on my travels the other day , perhaps our fellow Kumbers from the US can shed some light on them -

They're The Eisenhower Media Network -

They seem to be an anti war think tank.

The full text of the letter is here https://matthewhoh.substack.com/p/a-for ... e-new-york

IMO they make the same mistake as yourself in seeing the US as the big evil in this. Talk of NATO expansion causing the conflict and the US pushing for said expansion like those choosing to join have no say in the matter!

For me it is as simple as if no ones house gets broken into then nobody joins a neighbourhood watch regardless of the other incentives. You see that with Finland and Sweden. It is a reaction to Russian aggression not the action causing said aggression.

The rest is then just a "give peace a chance" without really explaining how that could be achieved in this situation without just given cause for a future conflict.

If I get bored this week I'll see what I can find out about this groups funding.
User avatar
EvilC
Posts: 18221
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...
Has liked: 2627 likes
Total likes: 1178 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by EvilC »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 2:07 pm Came across this group on my travels the other day , perhaps our fellow Kumbers from the US can shed some light on them -

They're The Eisenhower Media Network -

Couldn't tell you whether they're Republicans or Democrats or Apolitical , I honestly don't know - anyway , a bunch of them sent Washington a signed letter on behalf of the EMN calling for a re-think on the war in Ukraine - I doubt whether it'll get read let alone listened to but I thought it interesting nonetheless .

'' The Eisenhower Media Network (EMN)
is an organization of expert former military, intelligence, and civilian national security officials.

Our experts offer credible, independent, and critical analysis grounded in real-world practitioner experience and years of sustained study and scholarship.

EMN seeks to reach broad, cross-partisan audiences in diverse media outlets and among the American people – who increasingly sense that U.S. foreign policy today is not making them, or the world, safer. ''


https://eisenhowermedianetwork.org/about/
They are a fringe organisation that say something you agree with.
User avatar
Loftyhammer
Posts: 1949
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:29 pm
Location: Northampton-by-the-Sea
Has liked: 2191 likes
Total likes: 167 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Loftyhammer »

I started to read the letter.....and to be fair for a while, I could understand they were articulating a view that's been given many times (not one with which I agree). The problem is that once past the first few paragraphs it starts to go a bit off piste and essentially blame the US for all the ills.
Particularly this line was an interesting one:

The Russians made their red lines clear. In Georgia and Syria, they proved they would use force to defend those lines.

Am struggling to see how what they did in either conflict were anything other than hyper-aggressive acts that had nothing defensive about them.

And also as has been said above, they are demanding a diplomatic end but with zero substantive, coherent plan as to how to do that? What's the end game?

Overall, looking through the site - they just appear to be anti-"everything US", ergo anti anything that NATO is doing to support Ukraine
Dimension Diver
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:52 am
Has liked: 278 likes
Total likes: 378 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Dimension Diver »

Prigozhin says war in Ukraine has backfired, warns of Russian revolution​

imrs.php
By Mary Ilyushina


“We are in a situation where we can simply lose Russia,” Prigozhin said, using an expletive to hammer his point. “We must introduce martial law. We unfortunately … must announce new waves of mobilization; we must put everyone who is capable to work on increasing the production of ammunition,” he said. “Russia needs to live like North Korea for a few years, so to say, close the borders … and work hard.”

Citing public anger at the lavish lifestyles of Russia’s rich and powerful, Prigozhin warned their homes could be stormed by people with “pitchforks.” He singled out Ksenia Shoigu, the daughter of Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, who was spotted vacationing in Dubai with her fiancé, Alexei Stolyarov, a fitness blogger.

“The children of the elite shut their traps at best, and some allow themselves a public, fat, carefree life,” Prigozhin said in the interview, which was released Wednesday on video. “This division might end as in 1917, with a revolution — when first the soldiers rise up, and then their loved ones follow.”


User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
Posts: 32777
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .
Has liked: 2640 likes
Total likes: 1746 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

EvilC wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 3:10 pm They are a fringe organisation that say something you agree with.

:grin:
User avatar
Het-Field
Posts: 10225
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:54 pm
Location: Its great to be Irish, but its a miracle to be a Dub
Has liked: 25 likes
Total likes: 322 likes
Contact:

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Het-Field »

Dimension Diver wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 2:02 am Prigozhin says war in Ukraine has backfired, warns of Russian revolution​

imrs.php
By Mary Ilyushina


“We are in a situation where we can simply lose Russia,” Prigozhin said, using an expletive to hammer his point. “We must introduce martial law. We unfortunately … must announce new waves of mobilization; we must put everyone who is capable to work on increasing the production of ammunition,” he said. “Russia needs to live like North Korea for a few years, so to say, close the borders … and work hard.”

A common talking point is how war-weary the West is supposedly becoming. Based on that, it seems that this may apply to Russia, and yet it is not talked about as a reason for their withdrawal by the peacenik, and 'realist' movement. This would speak to negotiations being harder and harder to quickly or permanently resolve the conflict.
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 25149
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm
Has liked: 5556 likes
Total likes: 3053 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

I just don't see what peaceful solution exists at this point. Both sides have lost so much that they would want something out of it and there isn't a position where both can declare a win and both are strong enough to continue fighting. One side or the other has to collapse before there will be peace (IMO) and the ramifications of that are significant.

As much as I'd like Russia to leave Ukraine and Putin to be overthrown, history shows us these things rarely work out for the best.

On the other side, appeasement does not work either as Putin is definitely a give an inch, take a mile type.

Some kind of "controlled" defeat of Russia looks the best outcome.
User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
Posts: 32777
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .
Has liked: 2640 likes
Total likes: 1746 likes

Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

MB wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 10:25 am I just don't see what peaceful solution exists at this point. Both sides have lost so much that they would want something out of it and there isn't a position where both can declare a win and both are strong enough to continue fighting. One side or the other has to collapse before there will be peace (IMO) and the ramifications of that are significant.

As much as I'd like Russia to leave Ukraine and Putin to be overthrown, history shows us these things rarely work out for the best.

On the other side, appeasement does not work either as Putin is definitely a give an inch, take a mile type.

Some kind of "controlled" defeat of Russia looks the best outcome.

As you know , MB , I posted a few pages back asking you all how you think all this will end , what type of Peace can be agreed upon etc etc.

Some type of compromise will have to be reached that's for sure and it'll end up upsetting some factor or other [ that's another ' for sure ] .

I don't see a ' Controlled Defeat ' of Russia .
Post Reply