Did I spot you stamping your foot there too ?
I thought I'd just answered your question just there - I don't hate the West .
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No, you spotted me trying to get you to answer this:The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 9:47 am Did I spot you stamping your foot there too ?
I thought I'd just answered your question just there - I don't hate the West .
It is set in stone and the answer to both of those questions is yes. If Russia attacks any NATO member every other NATO member will respond in defence.The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:36 am I've another question for you - if Turkey were to be invaded by some hypothetical army , a combined force of ISIS & Kurds say , would NATO come to its aid , would Greece ?
If Russia were to invade Finland , population of 5.5 m would NATO really get involved , would the US risk WW3 over such a small population ?
I'm not sure . I think it's voluntary isn't it , it's not set in stone ..
I know exactly what Sweden did during the war. Russia also supplied the German army with raw materials while they were neutral so would you expect them to side with Germany like they did in 1939?The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 11:19 am Well , although Sweden claimed to be neutral during WW2 they did supply the German Army with raw materials and provided safe passage for German soldiers to and from Norway via rail - they also laid mines in the Sea of Aland to prevent Soviet submarines from getting through .
That doesn't really answer the question, you've just said you don't think they had anything to fear, but I suppose that's as good as it gets. But then you said that about Ukraine too. But anyway, we can continue.The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:36 am Jesus , you ask me so many things I fail to spot some .
Ok , from my limited knowledge of Vladimir Putin's decision making I would say that neither Sweden nor Finland had nothing to fear from Russia , I honestly think that ......when was the last time they fell out ??
Finland is a country with a population similar to that of Scotland's , they have previous with Russia but that was a long long time ago and they did sign an agreement with Russia to remain neutral [ which means NOT joining NATO ] ....however , if they feel safer joining NATO , go ahead .
Sweden , more German than Russian so I fully understand why they'd side with the Nazis in WW2 despite claiming neutrality , again if they feel safer joining NATO go ahead .
I can see why the US would want them onboard - great places to be for an invasion of Russia - great places to install missiles which will not only wipe out Moscow but wipe out any nuclear deterrent Russia has in place ....then it's saddle up them horses and charge , yessiree , Bob !!
Now , you , blind to American Foreign Policy and NATO expansionism or Russophobe ?
Which is it , I'm guessing both ??
I've another question for you - if Turkey were to be invaded by some hypothetical army , a combined force of ISIS & Kurds say , would NATO come to its aid , would Greece ?
If Russia were to invade Finland , population of 5.5 m would NATO really get involved , would the US risk WW3 over such a small population ?
I'm not sure . I think it's voluntary isn't it , it's not set in stone ..
Maybe the benefits of joining NATO aren't that great ?
Good luck to them both , I like a bit of Scandi Noir , I wouldn't want anything to spoil my television viewing .
I think you have different views to most people on this threadThe Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 12:42 pm Evil -
Alright , mate we have different views concerning Russia and that's ok , I'm not going to fall out with you over it .
The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 12:42 pm Evil -
Alright , mate we have different views concerning Russia and that's ok , I'm not going to fall out with you over it .
Ukraine signed a similar treaty for all the good it's done them.The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:36 am Finland is a country with a population similar to that of Scotland's , they have previous with Russia but that was a long long time ago and they did sign an agreement with Russia to remain neutral [ which means NOT joining NATO ] ....however , if they feel safer joining NATO , go ahead .
Sweden , more German than Russian so I fully understand why they'd side with the Nazis in WW2 despite claiming neutrality , again if they feel safer joining NATO go ahead .
I can see why the US would want them onboard - great places to be for an invasion of Russia - great places to install missiles which will not only wipe out Moscow but wipe out any nuclear deterrent Russia has in place ....then it's saddle up them horses and charge , yessiree , Bob !!
Is it expansionism if you are taking it back?
"Help".The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:41 pm Hmmm , Russia going in to help Russian-speaking Ukrainians is hardly expansionist but if they leave Ukraine without a port then yeah I agree , it is expansionist .
As for The Treaty Of Friendship which I believe Sammy is referring to , the treaty covered borders , the Crimea and such stuff and it expired on 31st March 2019 anyway , the Crimea was a gift from Russia to Ukraine in 1954 , later the Russians would argue that the transfer was unconstitutional due to only 13 members being present of the 27 needed to sign the transfer papers but what really upset the Russians was the US/German backed coup which saw off President Yanukovych in 2014 and as the Lord giveth and takes away so did the Russians [ they held a vote and everything ] - and where there's a Colour Revolution or some Flower Revolution you'll find those pesky Americans at the root of things leaving chaos and death in their wake - The Arab Spring - Georgia - Ukraine - Kyrgyztan all CIA backed all ultimately ended in failure .
We'll find out what they call it when the PLA go and peacekeep all the ethnic Chinese in Siberia.