Entry into NATO by a thousand cuts type of thing, surely?MB wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:16 am Given Macron’s comments yesterday, this won’t achieve what Putin wants re the West and I don’t think there is any negotiation to be had. If anything, this seems to be increase the calls for more support for Ukrainian. Truss announced we will fund them well into next year and now there is talk of non-Soviet era tanks and even aircraft being provided if the Ukrainians can show they have the ability to maintain them independently.
Russian invasion of Ukraine
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- Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
- SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
I will cease hostilities, supply gas and remove the more imminent threat of ww3/nuclear war. Your economies can begin to pick up, your people afford to pay their bills, your business's won't be shutting en masse. You won't have a long cold winter where the electorate face shortage and black outs.
I agree it's unlikely to be taken up at this point but I can imagine Putin thinking he has some leverage. I suspect there are a few more political cracks in the west than we have heard about.
Again I'm not saying that should be a deal, we would just be back here again in a year or 2. Right now though it seems to me there are 2 endgame options, someone removes putin or we plough on until he gets desperate enough to go nuclear.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
But it does nothing to guarantee you a supply of gas, and the West knows that.SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:24 am I will cease hostilities, supply gas and remove the more imminent threat of ww3/nuclear war. Your economies can begin to pick up, your people afford to pay their bills, your business's won't be shutting en masse. You won't have a long cold winter where the electorate face shortage and black outs.
I agree it's unlikely to be taken up at this point but I can imagine Putin thinking he has some leverage. I suspect there are a few more political cracks in the west than we have heard about.
Again I'm not saying that should be a deal, we would just be back here again in a year or 2. Right now though it seems to me there are 2 endgame options, someone removes putin or we plough on until he gets desperate enough to go nuclear.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
To be fair, he can cease hostilities and move back to the Feb 23 borders any time he wants. He doesn't need any agreement for that.
It's worth remembering that if you give in to blackmail, you'll be proving that blackmail works, and it'll be used again and again.
It's worth remembering that if you give in to blackmail, you'll be proving that blackmail works, and it'll be used again and again.
- SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
Agreed.Dimension Diver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:29 am To be fair, he can cease hostilities and move back to the Feb 23 borders any time he wants. He doesn't need any agreement for that.
It's worth remembering that if you give in to blackmail, you'll be proving that blackmail works, and it'll be used again and again.
- MB
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
Probably makes it more inevitable longer term, but we are talking longer term according to most of the articles I’ve read,Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:22 am Entry into NATO by a thousand cuts type of thing, surely?
- sussexhammer74
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
Read on another forum and very left field theory.
This referendum to be held in the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine will return a vote of No and they don't want to be part of Russia. He pulls his troops saying that "Neo Nazis" have corrupted the minds of these people but a vote is a vote and will stand by the results.
He retreats and fights to live another day. I mean it's possible but I cannot see it happening. He has nukes and keeps threatening to use them. Whether he does or not, he has that card to play. Given that his equipment isnt up to much kop now, you have got to wonder how well his nukes have been maintained.
Still the costs of flights from Russia to Turkey is starting to rocket up. Maybe the possible conscripts are looking at long term holidays.
This referendum to be held in the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine will return a vote of No and they don't want to be part of Russia. He pulls his troops saying that "Neo Nazis" have corrupted the minds of these people but a vote is a vote and will stand by the results.
He retreats and fights to live another day. I mean it's possible but I cannot see it happening. He has nukes and keeps threatening to use them. Whether he does or not, he has that card to play. Given that his equipment isnt up to much kop now, you have got to wonder how well his nukes have been maintained.
Still the costs of flights from Russia to Turkey is starting to rocket up. Maybe the possible conscripts are looking at long term holidays.
- dasnutnock3
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
If only this was true. The Russian hypernationalists would never accept it. They don't care what 'hohols" think any more than they care what Chechens think.sussexhammer74 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:04 am This referendum to be held in the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine will return a vote of No and they don't want to be part of Russia. He pulls his troops saying that "Neo Nazis" have corrupted the minds of these people but a vote is a vote and will stand by the results.
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- MB
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
And now the penny drops. The mobilisation order isn’t about getting more soldiers so much as preventing the ones they do have from walking away when their contracts end:
- sendô
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
Putin's "It's NATO troops fighting in Ukraine" comments will be about shoring up domestic support, as most Russians are probably naturally mistrusting of NATO whilst sympathetic to Ukranians.
- Loftyhammer
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
They aren't stupid, they are most likely being treated better than they were in prison (Geneva Convention) and will go home after six months. Anyone for a prisoner swap, no thanks we are fine here, come back in February.Dimension Diver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:33 am When you've got prison inmates with a week's worth of training immediately surrendering at Bahkmut,
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
True, but I was thinking about it. If they get a prisoner swap they probably have to go back to Russian prisons which are meant to be some of the most brutal in the world. Not to mention that they might be persecuted for surrendering. If they beg to stay in Ukraine they might be forced to see out their prison sentence but in presumably less brutal surroundings.
I can imagine that Wagner clown Prickozhin or whatever thinking he was in the Dirty Dozen when he was making that speech to the inmates. In reality the inmates were probably whispering to each other “What they say is true. There really is a sucker born every minute.”
I can imagine that Wagner clown Prickozhin or whatever thinking he was in the Dirty Dozen when he was making that speech to the inmates. In reality the inmates were probably whispering to each other “What they say is true. There really is a sucker born every minute.”
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine
Conveniently forgetting about the Russian troops who had been fighting in Donbass since 2014.
- SammyLeeWasOffside
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