Crystal Palace 2-3 West Ham Utd (1/1/22)

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BondsoBob
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by BondsoBob »

It was a great game, but I think we got away with it.
Along with most others even at 3-0 I didn't feel comfortable.
Still, it's another away win and 3 points. So it seems churlish to sound negative.
Well done lads! :scarfer:
Last edited by BondsoBob on Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

Hamburger wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:40 am Johnson got caught out of position badly several times but did play well enough going forward. I don't think wing back will be his forte but he did an ok job filling in.

I still think while we are weak at the back we should be playing 3 across the middle to offer some protection and allow both Rice and Soucek to get forward on occasions. A good old fashioned centre half?
Yes, Johnson was fine going forward, but he and Ben left far too much space behind themselves, when they did. Palace had a few accurate passers and there were too many balls played long or diagonally into that area of the pitch.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by brownout »

I'm going to moan about our fans again. Squeezing loads extra into rows. Standing on seats.

I know the Arthur Waite Stand is a contributory factor but a combination of supporter behaviour, design of the stand / concourse and lack of stewarding may well one day lead to injuries or worse.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by funky chicken »

https://youtu.be/c0T1t2FEZCU


Great support, as always! :hamm:
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by e-20 »

prophet:marginal wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:49 am Yes, Johnson was fine going forward, but he and Ben left far too much space behind themselves, when they did. Palace had a few accurate passers and there were too many balls played long or diagonally into that area of the pitch.
It’s difficult to have it both ways, if he goes forward inevitably space will be left behind which under ideal circumstances the holding midfielders will cover or in extremis a mobile central defender moves wide and the midfielders will drop back to cover them. It needs excellent coordination to start with very aware and defensive minded holding midfielders and very aware and mobile central defenders. You can get away with aspects of this falling short at any given time BUT when you start with totally inadequate central defenders for that job you are courting trouble from the start. Then when you have two attack minded holding midfielders that is opening further doors to a quick witted opposition. So while two quality centre backs combined with two quality holding midfielders or even losing one of them will operate effectively in this respect expecting it to do so now sadly is very optimistic and to cover the flaws without seriously compromising our forward momentum near impossible as yesterdays analysis would reveal as both Rice and Johnson caused problems to Palace and gave width on the left while everyone has been saying how Soucek is wasted sitting back, yet Rice in storming forward yesterday was vital to going 3 up. Without new competent, mobile and strategically aware defensive recruits and ultimately Zouma’s return too this conundrum is going to cost us dear I fear.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

I find no argument with any of that.

It was most obvious, indeed, immediately before Palace hit the bar (we were 0-2 by this point).

Johnson is close to central in the pitch and Benrahma is miles away from Ayew. He had the rest of that half to get a pass under control and feed his colleague the ball. They really should have scored then, from that.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Burnley Hammer »

sendô wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:04 am ^ The other thing the stats dont show is how bad he is passing out at the back, and how often he will simply hoof it long to the opposition and set them up for a counter.
Yes and Dawson is guilty a lot of this too. It really hurts us at the moment imo, especially when we just need to keep hold of the ball a bit to relieve pressure. It's another reason why we're missing Ogbonna so much.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

On occasion, Dawson picks a pass and changes the whole focus of the play.

Diop never does that.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Burnley Hammer »

prophet:marginal wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:44 am On occasion, Dawson picks a pass and changes the whole focus of the play.

Diop never does that.
On occasion yes. His hit rate is low though. On many other occasions he tries to pick a pass and it doesn't go within 20 metres of one of our players. When we're under pressure then we need to keep hold of the ball a little better sometimes. We'd definitely benefit from a defender in there that can play a bit of football. I don't think there's another central defence partnership in the premiership at the moment that look more uncomfortable on the ball than ours.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

I assume therefore that you didn't watch our game at Vicarage Road, recently.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Burnley Hammer »

prophet:marginal wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:57 am I assume therefore that you didn't watch our game at Vicarage Road, recently.
Fair point. Maybe I should have added 'except Watford' to the end of that.

As it happens, I thought our distribution from defence was very poor in that game too. In fact I didn't even think we played particularly well for large parts of it. It's hard to believe that we've actually scored 7 goals in the last two games whilst being far from our best.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Chesterfield Hammer »

Ben Johnson’s passing worries/ angers me
But I remain aware he is being played totally out of position
However Man Utd competed reasonably well for a number of years with Denis Irwin at left back
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crossd_Hammrs »

richneal wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:43 amFWIW, I'd have no problems slotting Rice in at CB if it helped: a ball-playing CB is exactly what we need to develop our attacks. The issue is that I haven't got a scooby if he'd actually improve the back four defensively or not.
When did Rice last play CB?
Had he ever played CB in the PL?

Come to think of it, when did he last head a ball?
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crossd_Hammrs »

Chesterfield Hammer wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:07 am Ben Johnson’s passing worries/ angers me
But I remain aware he is being played totally out of position
However Man Utd competed reasonably well for a number of years with Denis Irwin at left back
Ferguson says Irwin was his greatest ever player.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

Crossd_Hammrs wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:10 am Ferguson says Irwin was his greatest ever player.
I thought that was Phil Jones?
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Chesterfield Hammer »

Crossd_Hammrs wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:10 am Ferguson says Irwin was his greatest ever player.
Indeed He probably was but my point was he was a Right footed left back … excellent much in the way Phil Neville wasnt
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

Burnley Hammer wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:04 am In fact I didn't even think we played particularly well for large parts of it. It's hard to believe that we've actually scored 7 goals in the last two games whilst being far from our best.
I've watched plucky, gutsy, "unlucky" West Ham for donkey's years now playing games where we've "competed well/had chances" etc only to get blown away by twenty minutes of another team with more quality going through the gears. Yesterday, was just a role reversal.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Doc H Ball »

We would often play Moyes' Everton and I would come out moaning that they were always lucky as hell.

Then you realise that it was the result of commitment, everyone knowing their roles and running to the end. We would play the fancier football, but get suckered most times.

Pleased he got a new song on his milestone appearance. I wonder if he could make the words out and bask a little today in the light of the job he's done? Doesn't seem like the basking type mind.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crossd_Hammrs »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:11 am I thought that was Phil Jones?
I think he tipped a young Jones to be, but injuries held him back.

And I think he called Irwin Mr Dependable, and said he was the first name on the team sheet, and the only player he could be certain to name in a Man Utd greatest XI.

But then I don't pay much attention to Man Utd or AF opinion, so I could have that wrong. Just did a quick Google though.
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Re: ⚽ Crystal Palace vs West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

Doc H Ball wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:29 am We would often play Moyes' Everton and I would come out moaning that they were always lucky as hell.

Then you realise that it was the result of commitment, everyone knowing their roles and running to the end. We would play the fancier football, but get suckered most times.

Pleased he got a new song on his milestone appearance. I wonder if he could make the words out and bask a little today in the light of the job he's done? Doesn't seem like the basking type mind.
Absolutely, there, Doc. You've reminded me of the 1-3 reverse against Everton, when Collison scored an absolute beauty (poss even a back-heeled assist from Parker). He scored it second half and we were all over the moon with it.

Everton dusted themselves down and scored 3 in the last 15 minutes. It was gutting to watch, but spoke volumes about respective fitness and tactical nous.
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