FAC3: West Ham Utd 2-0 Leeds Utd (9/1/22)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Overchuffed »

Wilko1304 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:07 pm It should have been offside. Law 11 does say "Clearly attempting to play a ball" from an offside position is offside, and the fact he doesn’t get to it is irrelevant.

Baffling decision but we were the better side.
My point which every pundit seemed to miss is that if you look at it closely, the ball forward towards the goalkeeper, when Bowen is in an offside position, seems to be played by the Leeds player who has slid in to try and tackled Vlasic, thus not offside because the ball as played by the defender. Yes, Vlasic touches it first, but the touch from the Leeds Player is an action to pay the ball, not a deflection, therefore you have to take it as the ball has been played off the defender and then not offside.

The reason it then probably takes so long looking again at the second Vlasic touch is to make sure that Bowen is at least level with the ball when Vlasic gets his foot to it. The slightest bit of Bowen in front of Vlasic when his outstretched foot contacted the ball would mean Bowen would have been interfering in front of the keeper from an offside position. However, as he is at least level with the ball, he is onside.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Estuary »

Wilko1304 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:08 pm But I also think Vlasic is fouled and the handball earlier should have been given.
Bowen is marginally behind the ball for Vlasic's last touch so cannot be offside, and the keeper saves that prod. As you say even if it is offside in the move, the VAR ref then brings it back and it's a pen firstly.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by old fart »

Overchuffed wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:18 pm My point which every pundit seemed to miss is that if you look at it closely, the ball forward towards the goalkeeper, when Bowen is in an offside position, seems to be played by the Leeds player who has slid in to try and tackled Vlasic, thus not offside because the ball as played by the defender. Yes, Vlasic touches it first, but the touch from the Leeds Player is an action to pay the ball, not a deflection, therefore you have to take it as the ball has been played off the defender and then not offside.

The reason it then probably takes so long looking again at the second Vlasic touch is to make sure that Bowen is at least level with the ball when Vlasic gets his foot to it. The slightest bit of Bowen in front of Vlasic when his outstretched foot contacted the ball would mean Bowen would have been interfering in front of the keeper from an offside position. However, as he is at least level with the ball, he is onside.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Scratchy »

Wilko1304 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:07 pm It should have been offside. Law 11 does say "Clearly attempting to play a ball" from an offside position is offside, and the fact he doesn’t get to it is irrelevant.

Baffling decision but we were the better side.
Bowen wasn't in an offside position when Vlasic hit the ball into the keeper.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by uptonparkhurst »

I think the "offside" decision went our way because the VAR guy was told that he'd got the "handball" decision SO wrong.

The ref was a joke the way he let the Leeds defenders hack at Bowen and Antonio without waving a yellow card.

(Mind you,he looked good compared to the twat who reffed the Notts Forest vs Gooners game - he wasn't fit to ref a game on a
cow-dung splattered pitch on Wanstead flats. :smiler: )
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Doc H Ball »

What a dreadful atmosphere…

Enjoy meeting friends and the drink before but my God that place sucks the life out.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Loftyhammer »

old fart wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:32 pm I was going to say something just because I've finally managed to login but I've changed my mind
I've been frantically trying to login for the last 2 hours just to thumbs up that post :rofl:
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Up the Junction »

The opposition view: Leeds United
https://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=136606
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by mushy »

old fart wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:32 pm I was going to say something just because I've finally managed to login but I've changed my mind
I was also going to say something as it's been six weeks since I've been able to login.
Can't remember what it was though.
Am sure it was interesting.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by wolf359 »

We've made it boys! Other teams see us as getting the benefit of VAR and refs, if it ever really does happen we'll be unstoppable.

""The first goal was clearly offside, what is going on? Can you not tell me the other way round that goal would have been chalked off, or would have been for any of the top London, Manchester or Liverpool clubs (with the possible exception of Everton, they are not in the swim)"

Opinions hey, they could have had 4 or 5 bookings in the first half and the ref let them get away with it.

"The referee wasn’t awful, he was just completely and utterly biased. It’s difficult after games like this to deny the conspiracy theories. 1/10 for turning up on time."
Last edited by wolf359 on Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Wilko1304 »

Overchuffed wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:18 pm My point which every pundit seemed to miss is that if you look at it closely, the ball forward towards the goalkeeper, when Bowen is in an offside position, seems to be played by the Leeds player who has slid in to try and tackled Vlasic, thus not offside because the ball as played by the defender. Yes, Vlasic touches it first, but the touch from the Leeds Player is an action to pay the ball, not a deflection, therefore you have to take it as the ball has been played off the defender and then not offside.

The reason it then probably takes so long looking again at the second Vlasic touch is to make sure that Bowen is at least level with the ball when Vlasic gets his foot to it. The slightest bit of Bowen in front of Vlasic when his outstretched foot contacted the ball would mean Bowen would have been interfering in front of the keeper from an offside position. However, as he is at least level with the ball, he is onside.
That, for me, would be quite a charitable viewpoint on it as Vlasic definitely looks to shoot and it’s blocked and squirms through. Could be what they’ve decided though, which is lucky for us.
Estuary wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:26 pm

Bowen is marginally behind the ball for Vlasic's last touch so cannot be offside, and the keeper saves that prod. As you say even if it is offside in the move, the VAR ref then brings it back and it's a pen firstly.
Scratchy wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:53 pm
Bowen wasn't in an offside position when Vlasic hit the ball into the keeper.
But he was when Vlasic had the blocked shot, which is what matters. He goes to the ball from that, which means he’s making an attempt and the rules say he should be off. The prod doesn’t do anything for the offside and is after the point where Bowen was off.

The only explanation I can work out is Overchuffed’s and that they believe the first attempt at an effort either hasn’t gone forward from Vlasic or the block is a deliberate enough action to kick it at goal by the Leeds defender. I think that’s very lucky for us if that’s the interpretation and harsh on a defender who is only blocking because of a shot. Maybe it’s the aftermath of the block and the defender bundles it at goal, so thus Bowen isn’t offside because the action is by the Leeds player.

Lucky, really. I don’t think we could have complained had VAR decided Bowen was off from the first effort by Vlasic.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Estuary »

Wilko1304 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:04 pm That, for me, would be quite a charitable viewpoint on it as Vlasic definitely looks to shoot and it’s blocked and squirms through. Could be what they’ve decided though, which is lucky for us.


But he was when Vlasic had the blocked shot, which is what matters. He goes to the ball from that, which means he’s making an attempt and the rules say he should be off. The prod doesn’t do anything for the offside and is after the point where Bowen was off.

The only explanation I can work out is Overchuffed’s and that they believe the first attempt at an effort either hasn’t gone forward from Vlasic or the block is a deliberate enough action to kick it at goal by the Leeds defender. I think that’s very lucky for us if that’s the interpretation and harsh on a defender who is only blocking because of a shot. Maybe it’s the aftermath of the block and the defender bundles it at goal, so thus Bowen isn’t offside because the action is by the Leeds player.

Lucky, really. I don’t think we could have complained had VAR decided Bowen was off from the first effort by Vlasic.
Bowen wasn't in the goalies line of sight when Vlasic first tried the shot, and he is behind the ball, marginally, when he prods his second shot. I don't think he's offside. Its mess but that's my take on it.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by steps »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:54 pm What a dreadful atmosphere…

Enjoy meeting friends and the drink before but my God that place sucks the life out.
Very flat.

Leeds fans singing the songs we got in the first season of moving, but they got silenced by the second goal.

We did have a few games like that at the BG though I seem to remember. The Hull game where James Chester scored a worldie of an own goal and BFS cupped his ear to the crowd springs to mind.

Some games we just can’t get up for. This was definitely one of them.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Oldun »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:54 pm What a dreadful atmosphere…

Enjoy meeting friends and the drink before but my God that place sucks the life out.
Although I agree the atmosphere from us was poor ,the place did not suck the life out of Leeds fans.
You get out what you put in and yesterday it was poor but there have been plenty of game this year that it has been good.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Early Cup games are always going to be like that.

Kids for a quid and more families going to the football that might not usually go or be able to go. And then some of the regulars or STHs not going as they may feel a bit worn out by the number of games they’ve been to, or might choose to give it a miss to save on travelling down, so on and so forth.

The trade-off is that you won’t get the atmospheres of the Liverpool, Tottenham or Chelsea league games but you do get a lot of young fans and families coming along and I imagine that is beneficial in solidifying the future of the fanbase.

Similarly, festive games at London Stadium are atrocious and it’s probably a good thing we haven’t had Boxing Day. That Southampton game the other week was a joke. Worst attendance and atmosphere at the stadium so far.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by alf git »

Mullhull wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:10 am I cannot make head nor tail of the first goal... Can anyone explain?

Back of the net.
HTH :newthumb:
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Billydinho »

Up the Junction wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:44 pm The opposition view: Leeds United
https://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=136606
Did we play Leeds or Liverpool?
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by mushy »

Oldun wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:34 pm Although I agree the atmosphere from us was poor ,the place did not suck the life out of Leeds fans.
You get out what you put in and yesterday it was poor but there have been plenty of game this year that it has been good.
Have we had a decent FA cup atmosphere at the new place? A combination of the fans not being up for it plus the fact that lots of regular season ticket holders don't take up their options leads to everything being a bit flat. City in the League Cup was decent but what else would you expect?
If you think back to the last 10 or so years at the Boleyn, did we have many FA Cup matches when it was banging? Two spring to mind, the last one v Man Utd and the Everton match we won on penalties, were there any others?
Seems like we don't get going until we either play in the last eight or we draw any of the super six at home.
Paradoxically if we play away it's always rocking.
It's a shame really, we have a rich tradition in the FA Cup.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Doc H Ball »

I think it’s unarguable that the stadium itself does not help the atmosphere.

There’s the identity/ownership issues which I think we have cause for optimism because coming back this season after the break made for a fresh start in attitude,perhaps.

But the ground itself needs completely changing to generate a proper atmosphere. I understand the Leeds fans were having a good time but I could hear them only a couple of times from the opposite end. There’s no holding in of the sound to create a feeling of being as one, which is fundamental. Well, to me anyway.

None of us had the chance to see West Ham v Leeds in the Cup at the Boleyn in front of 37,000 and 6,000 Leeds fans, but I would bet my Founders badge that it would have made yesterday feel like a seance. What would it have been like at Elland Road instead?

I did hear the old You’re Not West Ham Anymore which still has no retort.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Leeds Utd: match thread

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:54 pm I think it’s unarguable that the stadium itself does not help the atmosphere.

There’s the identity/ownership issues which I think we have cause for optimism because coming back this season after the break made for a fresh start in attitude,perhaps.

But the ground itself needs completely changing to generate a proper atmosphere. I understand the Leeds fans were having a good time but I could hear them only a couple of times from the opposite end. There’s no holding in of the sound to create a feeling of being as one, which is fundamental. Well, to me anyway.

None of us had the chance to see West Ham v Leeds in the Cup at the Boleyn in front of 37,000 and 6,000 Leeds fans, but I would bet my Founders badge that it would have made yesterday feel like a seance. What would it have been like at Elland Road instead?

I did hear the old You’re Not West Ham Anymore which still has no retort.
It's not a football stadium, but if it was, it's a night stadium. Everything good about it is amplified at night under the lights. Everything bad about it is magnified in the dreary daylight.

Squaring off the West stand as is reportedly soon to happen will make a difference like it did behind the goals. It's inarguable that the stadium configuration doesn't help the atmosphere but it's also inarguable that the changes behind the goals made a difference. The chasm where the technical area lies is currently one of the biggest issues with the stadium as it not only looks ridiculous but serves to isolate that whole stand.

City in the Cup was a good atmosphere. Even Chelsea in the Cup in one of the early years was a good atmosphere, and that was at a time where the resentment and bitterness towards the club from the fans was at fever pitch. Not a good time in our history. Both games were night games. Liverpool the other week was a fantastic atmosphere, again as the lights came on. For whatever reason, night games make the stadium look and feel so much better. Probably helps to hide all of the scaffolding, tarpaulin and dreary detailing around the place.

If we played all our home games at night, I think we'd be even more dynamite and hard to beat.
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