This sums it up perfectly.Doc H Ball wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:28 am
Then there’s the tangible. They can bring on 3 strikers, we’ve got one flogged to death.
Manchester Utd 1-0 West Ham Utd (22/1/22)
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
That's pure speculation, I hear this all the time with never one iota of proofBubbles Fortuna wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:52 am I think the issue is Ace that on the other side they'd have been forensic. Just look at the Aston Villa goal.
VAR was meant to stop the bias towards the Sky 6, it appears to have made it worse.
Show me the cheque stubs !
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
I'm still annoyed that we didn't beat a Manchester United side who look very poor and seem to be in turmoil.
Also they played an extra game than us mid week which last week Moyes made as his excuse that we were tired against Leeds.
Also they played an extra game than us mid week which last week Moyes made as his excuse that we were tired against Leeds.
- wwipe2001
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Fredericks lost us that game. I watched it back and he made three awful decisions in the final moments.
1) he was way out of position on the clearance
2) he makes the brain dead decision to try to head the ball knowing full well no one is behind him if he misses or miscues
3) he recovers and in a cavalry of Cavani, martial, and Ronaldo, he tries (and fails) to tackle Ronaldo, despite again being the last cover for the two other runners (with Ronaldo facing 3 defenders already).
Maybe #3 is harsh but if he tracks the runners which I would think is the intuitive thing to do, he can either make an attempt at a fair challenge / put one of the passers (or Ronaldo) off…or take one or both down - there were 30 seconds left in the match.
Edit - the #3 moment…would you say the right thing to do here is to leave the two runners to challenge the ball carrier? Low football IQ - IMO
Edit - last observation: I think under normal circumstances Declan clocks Ronaldo here and cleans out the man and the ball. But he was already on a yellow (and indeed had cover) for Ronaldo. The yellow he was given earlier was dubious, and I remember an identical incident against Bowen 2nd half where no yellow was given.
Still, I wonder if Declan should have cleaned Ronaldo out. That situation was far more dangerous than a free kick that we could have gotten set and prepared for. But It would have meant missing the next game. Is bottling it what leadership looks like? Our next game is in the cup against a non league side…could argue that Dec should have taken one for the team here. Maybe this is where his inexperience still shows.
1) he was way out of position on the clearance
2) he makes the brain dead decision to try to head the ball knowing full well no one is behind him if he misses or miscues
3) he recovers and in a cavalry of Cavani, martial, and Ronaldo, he tries (and fails) to tackle Ronaldo, despite again being the last cover for the two other runners (with Ronaldo facing 3 defenders already).
Maybe #3 is harsh but if he tracks the runners which I would think is the intuitive thing to do, he can either make an attempt at a fair challenge / put one of the passers (or Ronaldo) off…or take one or both down - there were 30 seconds left in the match.
Edit - the #3 moment…would you say the right thing to do here is to leave the two runners to challenge the ball carrier? Low football IQ - IMO
Edit - last observation: I think under normal circumstances Declan clocks Ronaldo here and cleans out the man and the ball. But he was already on a yellow (and indeed had cover) for Ronaldo. The yellow he was given earlier was dubious, and I remember an identical incident against Bowen 2nd half where no yellow was given.
Still, I wonder if Declan should have cleaned Ronaldo out. That situation was far more dangerous than a free kick that we could have gotten set and prepared for. But It would have meant missing the next game. Is bottling it what leadership looks like? Our next game is in the cup against a non league side…could argue that Dec should have taken one for the team here. Maybe this is where his inexperience still shows.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
I'll never play the Blame Game , goals get scored and goals get conceded , it's all part of football , pointing out individual errors is unhelpful and unfair .
You could as easily have said ' Had Bowen not mis- controlled the ball and given away possession then Man Utd wouldn't have scored - had Soucek's effort gone in instead of wide we might have drawn the game etc etc .
The difference was their bench , they had Martial , Rashford and Cavani to bring on along with Lingard [ who would be part of our First X1 if we could only sign him ] while we had to make do with 5 defenders , Noble , Vlasic and Yarmolenko .
I thought we did ok mostly , possibly gave them too much respect at times but to lose in the 93rd minute is a kick in the teeth whoever you are . Unlucky . We're certainly not out of it yet but could do with reinforcements if we're to continue mounting a challenge for Top 4 - Moyes knows this , we know this , but getting the right players at a price we can afford in January is difficult .
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Top 4 has gone and probably top 6 now
Too many games wasted as squad to thin
Too many games wasted as squad to thin
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Football is a game of individual mistakes. If there are no mistakes, no one ever really scores. The difference with Frederick’s mistakes is that he made 3 of them in quick succession.The Old Man of Storr wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:52 pm I'll never play the Blame Game , goals get scored and goals get conceded , it's all part of football , pointing out individual errors is unhelpful and unfair .
You could as easily have said ' Had Bowen not mis- controlled the ball and given away possession then Man Utd wouldn't have scored - had Soucek's effort gone in instead of wide we might have drawn the game etc etc .
The difference was their bench , they had Martial , Rashford and Cavani to bring on along with Lingard [ who would be part of our First X1 if we could only sign him ] while we had to make do with 5 defenders , Noble , Vlasic and Yarmolenko .
I thought we did ok mostly , possibly gave them too much respect at times but to lose in the 93rd minute is a kick in the teeth whoever you are . Unlucky . We're certainly not out of it yet but could do with reinforcements if we're to continue mounting a challenge for Top 4 - Moyes knows this , we know this , but getting the right players at a price we can afford in January is difficult .
I can’t fault Dawson (?) for attempting the pass, for it not being perfect, or for Bowen not bringing it down. But that’s different than say hypothetically Dawson trying to carry it out of defense, losing it, and then ceding a breakaway. That’s not exactly what happened here but I see 3 bad decisions in quick succession that cost us the game. In this league you can often get punished for one bad decision. This was a total meltdown.
We did play well at times, we did have our chances (which we didn’t take), as did they. Frankly, they had the better of the chances and I wouldn’t necessarily say 1-0 is an unfair scoreline, just aggrieved at the manner in which that 1-0 was achieved - between this brainless play with less than a minute to go, to the offside decision not given - or properly reviewed - against Cavani
I do also think Cavani was offside but that’s been beaten to death already.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
We simply have to learn how to see a game out . Moyes at his post match interview said as much . As desperately as we need a striker. another defensive midfielder to go alongside Declan wouldn't go amiss either .
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Why do we have to see the game out? We are not desperate for a point to fight relegation,we should always be trying to win this game and that is what we was doing,Fredricks only got caught out because he was flying forward to help out Bowen.The hayfield wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:22 pm We simply have to learn how to see a game out . Moyes at his post match interview said as much . As desperately as we need a striker. another defensive midfielder to go alongside Declan wouldn't go amiss either .
I would rather us go for a win than try and play negative football,yesterday it backfired on us but perhaps another day we might have nicked it .
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Because it was against a team just below us. The draw suited us better. We not only lost a point but they gained an extra 2.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Respecting a point depends on the circumstances.
At the end they had Rashford, Cavani, Martial, Pogba and Christ playing yet our fullback went bombing into their half after Bowen.
There’s trying to win a game at the death - ie by set pieces and in attacking their depleted defence with balls over the top to Bowen and Antonio, and holding your back 4 against that little lot.
I can’t complain too much having enthused about Palace away and Moyes playing 4 at the back, but he then did the same against Leeds with one DM with licence to roam which cost us. He was angry yesterday about defensive discipline and Rice has said the same, but the shape is at least partly responsible.
I’d play a 442 every game though so what do I know.
At the end they had Rashford, Cavani, Martial, Pogba and Christ playing yet our fullback went bombing into their half after Bowen.
There’s trying to win a game at the death - ie by set pieces and in attacking their depleted defence with balls over the top to Bowen and Antonio, and holding your back 4 against that little lot.
I can’t complain too much having enthused about Palace away and Moyes playing 4 at the back, but he then did the same against Leeds with one DM with licence to roam which cost us. He was angry yesterday about defensive discipline and Rice has said the same, but the shape is at least partly responsible.
I’d play a 442 every game though so what do I know.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
Shame at the ground to see more unsavoury b*llocks at the end of the game in the crowd, riot police and all. Is this what football has become.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I think we were hoping to defend and hit them on the counter yesterday - but didn't really have the players in the team to do that. It's not really Lanzini's or Fornal's game. We were best at it last season with Lingard in the team. It's not enough to just have Antonio up top... you need players between the defence and the attack that are capable of suddenly driving forward with the ball at pace. At the moment we only have Bowen out on the right that can do that so it's pretty easy to nullify our counter attack threat.
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
He was off..what they are saying is it wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake ....they have a quick look if they don’t want to disallow it but look for any reason to disallow it when it’s against the top 6...look at Liverpool penalty today..they would not accept the ref saying no pen and kept looking and looking til they convinced themselves it could be given and ordered him to have another lookCrouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:19 pm This is painful
It was onside
A human didn't decide this
The VAR machine did quickly and got it right
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Re: ⚽ Manchester Utd vs West Ham Utd: match thread
That made me laugh far more than it should've........neathiron wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:22 am Considering a lot of the play was based in the middle of the park yesterday and chances were few and far between, I'm amazed Match Of The Day failed to show the two driving runs towards the box from Bowen to fill out the highlights. The one in the 1st half when he brought the ball down, think it was over Maguire's head ( which is a feat in itself) was a great piece of skill.
As for the offside? Where the "official" still picture has it frozen has the ball actually been played?
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