Manchester Utd 1-0 West Ham Utd (22/1/22)

[Reg Stretch]

It may not have been offside, but surely that image is not the moment the ball left his foot.

Interesting what frame they choose to show isn’t it?? They think we are ****ing stupid

[hammerman11]

Should have defended better and nit allowed overload on our right side

[Reg Stretch]

plenty fall for it though ...even on here sadly

[bristolhammerfc]

I hate all this slide rule angles crap with VAR. Why don't they just say the majority of the player has to be in an offside position for it to be ruled out and only if the assistant doesn't flag.

I'm sorry, but we would have been livid if one of our goals had been ruled out for that and defending VAR if it was given. Its gotten stupid now. Waiting to check fifteen different angles. Just make the rule better so you don't need toenails etc.

I thought it was a well worked goal despite it being against us and making me furious with our defenders.

I don't mind VAR for a yellow/red offence or handball for a goal, but the offside rule is counter productive. Modern tosh

[ageing hammer]

I hate all this slide rule angles crap with VAR. Why don't they just say the majority of the player has to be in an offside position for it to be ruled out and only if the assistant doesn't flag.

I'm sorry, but we would have been livid if one of our goals had been ruled out for that and defending VAR if it was given. Its gotten stupid now. Waiting to check fifteen different angles. Just make the rule better so you don't need toenails etc.

I thought it was a well worked goal despite it being against us and making me furious with our defenders.

I don't mind VAR for a yellow/red offence or handball for a goal, but the offside rule is counter productive. Modern tosh

I would go one better Bristol just scrap offside altogether and none of these stupid decisions could be made
Var was brought in to stop the refs and linesmen from making mistakes with offside. Well all var has do e is put more ent officials in a studio robbing g all teams outside the top six each time.

Refs were robbing us years before var existed so just scrap offside altogether and it can't happen

[Burnley Hammer]

There's no argument really.... he was a mile offside when the ball was played. Can't believe VAR didn't spot that.

[sendô]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I think we were hoping to defend and hit them on the counter yesterday - but didn't really have the players in the team to do that. It's not really Lanzini's or Fornal's game. We were best at it last season with Lingard in the team. It's not enough to just have Antonio up top... you need players between the defence and the attack that are capable of suddenly driving forward with the ball at pace. At the moment we only have Bowen out on the right that can do that so it's pretty easy to nullify our counter attack threat.

Yeah I think you're right, with Bowen, Antonio and Lingard we had lots of fast players breaking at pace. Fornals can do it too, but isn't as good. Lanzini simply can't. Benrahma can but always seems to try and do too much. Could Vlasic? Perhaps but we've not seen it.

[prophet:marginal]

Fornals and Ben are often the architects of the ball that takes the team into the opponent's half, especially when we are breaking after a set-piece from the other side.

[sendô]

Yes, Fornals has done it time and again. He's the best at receiving the ball in space, turning and picking out a key pass that sets us off.

[Burnley Hammer]

Yeah I think you're right, with Bowen, Antonio and Lingard we had lots of fast players breaking at pace. Fornals can do it too, but isn't as good. Lanzini simply can't. Benrahma can but always seems to try and do too much. Could Vlasic? Perhaps but we've not seen it.

I also don't think Antonio is really that much of a counter attack threat. He can't really run that fast with the ball under his control - not in the way Bowen and Lingard can. He's ok when just kicking the ball ahead and then chasing after it 1 on 1 with another defender. He should be great at playing on the shoulder of the last defender and then knocking balls over the top for him to run on to.... but that never happens. Not centrally anyway. He is a goalscoring threat but not in the way you'd expect given his attributes. I honestly think a lot of teams have sussed him out - or at least sussed out the way we use him - and he's struggling a bit now. I think we need to start keeping possession a little better and mixing the passages of play up a little bit. We're a little predictable at the moment in the way we attack and it doesn't take a genius of a manager to figure out how to play against us.

[jastons]

Antonio has been playing deeper and wider recently. We need him (because we sure as **** don't have anyone else) to be high up the pitch and central.

[Ironing Board]

For all the criticism he gets, Antonio is consistently highlighted as our best player, or at very least among them, by opposition fans.

[sendô]

I honestly think a lot of teams have sussed him out - or at least sussed out the way we use him - and he's struggling a bit now.

100% teams have done this. He gets isolated. The other team will generally put a big strong defender on him who will stick to him like glue. Antonio doesn't win much in the air because for all his strength he isn't that tall, so gets out jumped by centre backs. Anything he can bring down generally bounces off of him because he's being tightly marked and often fouled, or else an opposition player is there to mop up the second ball.

Teams have also worked out if they press all of our midfield/full backs when our CBs are in possession, generally they'll run out of options and punt it into Antonio, who can't keep hold of it.

Mick in frustration runs around, goes out to the wing etc.

I think we might need a change of formation for a couple of games. Get Bowen closer into Antonio. Maybe 3 at the back with Cress and Coufal playing defence, Fredericks and Masuaku wingbacks. Three centre mids, Rice/Soucek + one of Lanzini/Fornals.

I don't know, but we need to change something up.

[jastons]

I don't know, but we need to change something up.

I'm repeating myself here but why haven't we signed a player with a similar skill set to Lingard? We couldn't sign Jese in the summer or the first 23 days of this month - so go and ****ing sign someone else!

We need a player who can carry the ball 40 / 50 yards at pace and who has an end product. That would relieve pressure on our defence and give the opposition something to worry about.

[YorksHammer]

Some perspective:

Last season we ended up where we did because we rarely lost against a side that wasn't in the 'big six'. Newcastle obviously did the double over us, and Everton beat us, but otherwise we lost to Man United, Liverpool, and Chelsea twice each, Man City and Arsenal once with a draw, and we drew then beat Spurs. Our record against those six was W1, D2, L8. Against the rest of the league it was W18, D6, L3.

We are not - to date - doing dissimilarly this season so far. 'Big six' - W3, D0, L4. The rest - W8, D4, L4. Our record is not a million miles away from last season.

I'm disappointed with this result, not least because we gave Man United way too much respect to play with the ball - it was like we had timewarped back to the 90s and feared them, when they were there to be got at as other teams have proven this season. It wasn't a good performance from us. But relatively our more important games, in terms of maintaining our league position, are those which are coming up. Positive results against Watford, Leicester, Newcastle, and Wolves will mean far more in terms of where we finish this season than a positive result against Man United right now. For me, this season is about - hopefully - consolidating the good work done last season and getting a sense of what it's like to feel like we could/should compete with the 'top' teams. Next season I'd like to see some progress and turning a game like this one into a more positive performance and result.

[hammerman11]

our performance was poor and we had no options to change that.
how nice would it be to have a second striker and play two up top in some games !
most teams know how we are going to play and have worked out how best to stop us.

after the break we have 4 big games we need at least 3 wins from
newcastle watford leicester and wolves

new players in and a 10pt haul from these games will help restore the feel good factor

[Diogenes]

I'm repeating myself here but why haven't we signed a player with a similar skill set to Lingard? We couldn't sign Jese in the summer or the first 23 days of this month - so go and ****ing sign someone else!

We need a player who can carry the ball 40 / 50 yards at pace and who has an end product. That would relieve pressure on our defence and give the opposition something to worry about.

Sounds ideal. So who might that be then?

[kitthehammer]

The difference was Man u's bench. We had no-one who would have either stopped them or improved us attacking.
And unfortunately i think that is why we will come up short in finishing top four again.
But worse than that, if we don't, i'd say it makes it more likely Rice and Bowen will leave come the summer.

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

I hate all this slide rule angles crap with VAR. Why don't they just say the majority of the player has to be in an offside position for it to be ruled out and only if the assistant doesn't flag.

I'm sorry, but we would have been livid if one of our goals had been ruled out for that and defending VAR if it was given. Its gotten stupid now. Waiting to check fifteen different angles. Just make the rule better so you don't need toenails etc.

I thought it was a well worked goal despite it being against us and making me furious with our defenders.

I don't mind VAR for a yellow/red offence or handball for a goal, but the offside rule is counter productive. Modern tosh

That first point is tricky. Personally I'd like the point where they make a call on offside to give the attacker a bit more leeway. I know we benefited in the end but there was an offside against Leeds last season where there had a goal chalked off because the player had his boot the wrong side of Cresswell.

The one issue with using any sort of technology for offside calls though is that changing the rule to x body part or a certain amount of the body (not sure how they'd judge that!) still gives those borderline calls, it just changes where the line is.

[Aztec Hammer]

For all the criticism he gets, Antonio is consistently highlighted as our best player, or at very least among them, by opposition fans.

Not debating whether Antonio is among our best players or not, but about opposition fans highlighting him as such, so what?

We see infinitely more of our players than they do. Opposition fans spent years saying Rice was rubbish. It’s only this season that they’ve pretty much conceded that he is top level.