This is it. We have the points in the bag. Teams in this division are tough, every one. Us and the teams around us average about 1.5 to 2 points per game. It’s still very tight. Huge 3 points last nightBubbles Fortuna wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:58 am Though they also play Wolves and Arsenal, and I'm fairly sure Arsenal play Wolves. So the chasing teams will all drop points.
West Ham Utd 1-0 Watford (8/2/22)
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
I was impressed with Coufal last night. Didn't put a foot wrong all night
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
I'm finding it hard to be too positive about the result because in all honesty it wasn't fully deserved, and came about via a deflected goal. The win and the positive play in the final 20 or so minutes has masked over how poor we were for so much of the game.
The over riding issue for me though is not that there were individual performances that were not very good. It's that we only seem to have one way of playing, and that now that opposition teams have worked out how to nullify that style we don't seem to have any idea how to counter their counter.
Look at it in basic terms. Teams press us high, putting their wingers on our full backs and have the striker harry the CBs into forcing a pass into a midfield where Rice and Soucek are marked. Yet our only solution - other than losing the ball in midfield - is an aimless punt upfield, normally to an Antonio who is tightly marked. Where are the rest of our midfielders? Why is one or more of Bowen, Fornals or Benrahma not dropping into space and making an angle for a pass? Perhaps with one of Rice or Soucek running up pitch to mix it up and move their midfield around?
Everything we did attack wise for so long went out down the wings, but again crosses into the box were lacking, and when we do teams know if they keep a tight bank of 4 around the 6 yard box/penalty spot area they'll get everything clear, and if their big CB tightly marks Antonio he can be kept quiet.
We have so much flair and skill in our team between Benrahma, Bowen, Lanzini, Antonio, Fornals, Vlasic, Cresswell and even Rice, but how often do we try and move the ball around in tight spaces in the middle? It's always one side to another.
We've become predictable, and have no plan B, either through the players on the pitch or Moyes on the sideline.
After we scored we started knocking the ball about more and looked better for it. We need to be able to play possession football at times, teams aren't always going to allow themselves to be lured onto the counter, which seems to be another issue - when was the last time we really hit teams hard on the counter? It feels like we haven't really managed it since Liverpool at home. That big part of our game teams to have gone, either through seems smothering Antonio, our own inability to pick out our own players when passing, or as I noticed a bit last night our own players not looking to attack quickly.
Anyway, some credit must go to Watford, who seem to be a much improved team from the one that we thrashed at their place not long ago. They worked hard and defended well, and the deflected goal was hard on them. They had some willing runners going forwards too, and we did not deal with them well at all. It's fortunate for us that all their attackers seemed to be playing as individuals rather than a cohesive unit. At any rate, when they inevitably go down we'd do worse than raiding some of them, including Dennis and King, and for our back up GK options Ben Foster who looked excellent, especially given he is 38!
The over riding issue for me though is not that there were individual performances that were not very good. It's that we only seem to have one way of playing, and that now that opposition teams have worked out how to nullify that style we don't seem to have any idea how to counter their counter.
Look at it in basic terms. Teams press us high, putting their wingers on our full backs and have the striker harry the CBs into forcing a pass into a midfield where Rice and Soucek are marked. Yet our only solution - other than losing the ball in midfield - is an aimless punt upfield, normally to an Antonio who is tightly marked. Where are the rest of our midfielders? Why is one or more of Bowen, Fornals or Benrahma not dropping into space and making an angle for a pass? Perhaps with one of Rice or Soucek running up pitch to mix it up and move their midfield around?
Everything we did attack wise for so long went out down the wings, but again crosses into the box were lacking, and when we do teams know if they keep a tight bank of 4 around the 6 yard box/penalty spot area they'll get everything clear, and if their big CB tightly marks Antonio he can be kept quiet.
We have so much flair and skill in our team between Benrahma, Bowen, Lanzini, Antonio, Fornals, Vlasic, Cresswell and even Rice, but how often do we try and move the ball around in tight spaces in the middle? It's always one side to another.
We've become predictable, and have no plan B, either through the players on the pitch or Moyes on the sideline.
After we scored we started knocking the ball about more and looked better for it. We need to be able to play possession football at times, teams aren't always going to allow themselves to be lured onto the counter, which seems to be another issue - when was the last time we really hit teams hard on the counter? It feels like we haven't really managed it since Liverpool at home. That big part of our game teams to have gone, either through seems smothering Antonio, our own inability to pick out our own players when passing, or as I noticed a bit last night our own players not looking to attack quickly.
Anyway, some credit must go to Watford, who seem to be a much improved team from the one that we thrashed at their place not long ago. They worked hard and defended well, and the deflected goal was hard on them. They had some willing runners going forwards too, and we did not deal with them well at all. It's fortunate for us that all their attackers seemed to be playing as individuals rather than a cohesive unit. At any rate, when they inevitably go down we'd do worse than raiding some of them, including Dennis and King, and for our back up GK options Ben Foster who looked excellent, especially given he is 38!
Last edited by sendô on Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
we got the win and thats what matters now until the end of the season.
we played better after the goal as watford came out leaving the space for us.
no to ben foster- good but too old.
dennis and kamarra(LB) are the ones to look at if they go down
we played better after the goal as watford came out leaving the space for us.
no to ben foster- good but too old.
dennis and kamarra(LB) are the ones to look at if they go down
Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Really? Funny how we all see different things. Thought he was crap, him & Cresswell give the ball away so much and so needlessly as well. Pair of em’s first thought is just to whack it down the line. Definitely touch of the Sebastian Schemmel’s about Coufal. I think Johnson should be starting atm.Puff Daddy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:18 am I was impressed with Coufal last night. Didn't put a foot wrong all night
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
I never understand the negativity around scoring via a deflection. If you aren't attacking and shooting, you aren't going to score. You make your own luck, it doesn't just happen by 'luck'. You have to be in the right place at the right time.
It is why Man Utd get so many lucky or dodgy penatlies, they play the ball into the box and dribble in the box a lot moire than we do. We tend to play down the wings and cross into the box, I don't think it is a conspiracy, it is a question of right place, right time.
The rest of you post I agree with
Last edited by Geoff Hurts on Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
you dont shoot you dont score. great goal just what we needed. lets hope we get many more !
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Just noticed that, along with our 50% win rate, we are - league games - on a 25% clean sheet rate, too.
2 nil-nil draws and 4 victories to nil.
2 nil-nil draws and 4 victories to nil.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
As ugly as it was, we deserved the win and 1-0 was a fair reflection of the game.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Totally agree with these points. Moyes played very similar tactics when he took over at Man Utd. I remember reading on Red Cafe at the time, that in one game, a poster counted 47 crosses into the box from out wide, none led to a goal. He changed their style in more ways than just making them more defensive.sendô wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:21 am
Everything we did attack wise for so long went out down the wings, but again crosses into the box were lacking, and when we do teams know if they keep a tight bank of 4 around the 6 yard box/penalty spot area they'll get everything clear, and if their big CB tightly marks Antonio he can be kept quiet.
We've become predictable, and have no plan B, either through the players on the pitch or Moyes on the sideline.
We are sometimes over reliant on getting the overload down the wing and then putting in a poor cross, or the player on the ball does not look uo to see there is nothing on. The other truly annoying thing is crossing the ball straight into the defenders body instead of getting half a yard in front and then sending the ball in.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
prophet:marginal wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:50 pm Watford are the first team we've doubled so far. Theoretically, we could still double another 8:
Liverpool
Chelsea
Spurs
Leicester
Villa
Everton
Norwich AND
Newcastle.
Alternatively, we could avenge a defeat against
Wolves, and
Arsenal.
Some of the games in hand for teams below us are against one another. Winning tonight - after the blizzard of bad press following hot on the heels of the flukey cup victory might give us some newfound impetus.
Got to hope so.
Love your positivity , Proph - keep it up , mate .
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Well, that played out as expected for difficult viewing! Funny atmosphere last night, Isla, Zouma, Watford playing as expected and fair play to them for that, we have done it enough times to the "big" teams
1st half awful, 2nd half better, particularly when Lanzini came on and started threading balls forward. Bowen is just superb presently, movement, trying to make things happen, is one proper player now that the wolves may descend on come summer.
A much needed win, hard fought as expected and I will take those magnificent 3 points with a smile, win ugly is always a good win.
You have to hand it to Roy, proper football man, and perhaps now Watford have a chance of staying up. Solid, plus some good attacking players, good recipe to pick up points. Their LB looked a bit useful, Dennis has something, plus a a sub came on, forget his name, he looked very talented.
Isla - fair play to the club.
Zouma - Moyes and the club ****ed up, he should have been benched for me, but I will doff my cap to Moyes for making the big call. I don't agree, but respect his backbone even if I think it was v wrong, and in regards to moving on in regards to footballing alone, he prob made the right call, time will tell. I wrongly expected us lot to give Zouma more abuse, not going to say I felt comfortable booing him, first time ever I think I have for one of ours, but in my book he deserved it. What I do know is that us lot in the crowd will be less vocal every game in regards to Zouma...
Watford fans when Zouma stayed down after a challenge "that's how your cat felt" or something like that, proper made me :lol:
1st half awful, 2nd half better, particularly when Lanzini came on and started threading balls forward. Bowen is just superb presently, movement, trying to make things happen, is one proper player now that the wolves may descend on come summer.
A much needed win, hard fought as expected and I will take those magnificent 3 points with a smile, win ugly is always a good win.
You have to hand it to Roy, proper football man, and perhaps now Watford have a chance of staying up. Solid, plus some good attacking players, good recipe to pick up points. Their LB looked a bit useful, Dennis has something, plus a a sub came on, forget his name, he looked very talented.
Isla - fair play to the club.
Zouma - Moyes and the club ****ed up, he should have been benched for me, but I will doff my cap to Moyes for making the big call. I don't agree, but respect his backbone even if I think it was v wrong, and in regards to moving on in regards to footballing alone, he prob made the right call, time will tell. I wrongly expected us lot to give Zouma more abuse, not going to say I felt comfortable booing him, first time ever I think I have for one of ours, but in my book he deserved it. What I do know is that us lot in the crowd will be less vocal every game in regards to Zouma...
Watford fans when Zouma stayed down after a challenge "that's how your cat felt" or something like that, proper made me :lol:
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Inclined to agree with you re last night, I thought Coufal had a poor game, his use of the ball was pretty bad. Some of that may be lack of options once he has the ball, and Watford pressing us when in possession, but he has had far better games than thatLovejoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:27 am Really? Funny how we all see different things. Thought he was crap, him & Cresswell give the ball away so much and so needlessly as well. Pair of em’s first thought is just to whack it down the line. Definitely touch of the Sebastian Schemmel’s about Coufal. I think Johnson should be starting atm.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Watford came with a plan to close us down and waste time. I know there was some rubbish play by us but i think this was largely down to hodgsons tactics, make us hurry everything, not completing passes, not finding space etc. So as much as i did think a few of our players had poor matches, i expect a few of the lower teams to play like that against us and we will look poor rather than giving credit to the opposition. We do need to improve but the fact is we did get a win and we did improve later in the match. Watford didn't have an answer to lanzini.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Indeed.kitthehammer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:02 am Watford came with a plan to close us down and waste time. I know there was some rubbish play by us but i think this was largely down to hodgsons tactics, make us hurry everything, not completing passes, not finding space etc. So as much as i did think a few of our players had poor matches, i expect a few of the lower teams to play like that against us and we will look poor rather than giving credit to the opposition. We do need to improve but the fact is we did get a win and we did improve later in the match. Watford didn't have an answer to lanzini.
We will beat Leicester comfortably, as they will come at us, Rodgers only has one way to play, and it suits our game perfectly.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
47 crosses was nothing for Moyes at Man Utd!Geoff Hurts wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:38 am Totally agree with these points. Moyes played very similar tactics when he took over at Man Utd. I remember reading on Red Cafe at the time, that in one game, a poster counted 47 crosses into the box from out wide, none led to a goal. He changed their style in more ways than just making them more defensive.
We are sometimes over reliant on getting the overload down the wing and then putting in a poor cross, or the player on the ball does not look uo to see there is nothing on. The other truly annoying thing is crossing the ball straight into the defenders body instead of getting half a yard in front and then sending the ball in.
Tbf, he's evolved a lot as a manager since then, but how to create chances against teams sitting back remains a major weakness for him and us.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Too much negativity on here about that performance.
First half we weren’t great, but even then each side created just one opportunity and 0-0 was fair. Second half we dominated and I thought we thoroughly deserved to win. We also controlled possession very well, up until the last five minutes when as always happens we tried to just protect the result.
First half we weren’t great, but even then each side created just one opportunity and 0-0 was fair. Second half we dominated and I thought we thoroughly deserved to win. We also controlled possession very well, up until the last five minutes when as always happens we tried to just protect the result.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
The lack of plan B is why i suggested we should use Yarmo more in these type.of games
We are not going to be able to counter attack so pace is less important but if you want someone to create in tight spaces it is him - you don't need him to track back much either
We do have a squad and the players should be used in matches that suit them - not just the same 11 every week
Another example is why play Soucek last night? Lanzini or Fornals playing there might have been q better option
We won so job done but there will be other games where we need more guile qnd not trying to crack a nut with a hanmer time after time
We are not going to be able to counter attack so pace is less important but if you want someone to create in tight spaces it is him - you don't need him to track back much either
We do have a squad and the players should be used in matches that suit them - not just the same 11 every week
Another example is why play Soucek last night? Lanzini or Fornals playing there might have been q better option
We won so job done but there will be other games where we need more guile qnd not trying to crack a nut with a hanmer time after time
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
They are both poor players.Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:57 am That was the sort of game crying out for Masuaku at left back and maybe Yarmo
Is Arthur injured at the mo?
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Starting to be a reasonable, if fragile, argument for starting another midfielder in place of Antonio, with Bowen as the frontman.
We’ve come off second best in the middle of the park in 4 consecutive games now. Antonio has been offering very little so we might be better served packing the middle during the bulk of the game and let Antonio come on for half an hour at the end and see how that dynamic - a tweak in two areas - serves us.
Lanzini is the obvious choice given he’s one of the few players in form even if he’s not the ‘type’ I’d pick given a free hand.
We’ve come off second best in the middle of the park in 4 consecutive games now. Antonio has been offering very little so we might be better served packing the middle during the bulk of the game and let Antonio come on for half an hour at the end and see how that dynamic - a tweak in two areas - serves us.
Lanzini is the obvious choice given he’s one of the few players in form even if he’s not the ‘type’ I’d pick given a free hand.