I noticed you disappeared out of the Wolves match thread pretty sharpish last week when we won. Like a more subtle version of that turtle charity troll.Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:41 am No, but people like you think he walks on water, I’ve never known a more protected WH manager. The mismanagement of the squad is down to him. Now course the fact he has them where they are is testament to him but imo he is leaving himself so much work to do this summer that if not done right I can see a proper scrap next year. My gripe with Antonio is simple. He isn’t a forward, he is a winger hence all his best work is done wide. The fact we rely on him so much isn’t his fault of course but he really isn’t that good.
FAC5: Southampton 3-1 West Ham Utd (2/3/22)
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- Metal Hammer
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Steady on.happydaystoytown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:54 am Southampton look in good shape, squad wise, I'd be very surprised if we finish above them next season.
They’ll lose Broja next season and other good players they have will be pounced upon by bigger clubs, as they always are.
They’ve had a good little run admittedly, but they’re still capable of losing games 9-0.
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
We do seem to have changed how we play - less risks, defenders not really bringing the ball forward, over reliance on Rice and Antonio running the channels to make space rather than being fed whilst running.
Maybe it’s tiredness making us more rigid, maybe it’s Moyes reverting to stereotype, maybe it’s having the one standout player being given licence to play where and how he wants and everything follows. Whatever, I preferred the Palace away craziness.
Maybe it’s tiredness making us more rigid, maybe it’s Moyes reverting to stereotype, maybe it’s having the one standout player being given licence to play where and how he wants and everything follows. Whatever, I preferred the Palace away craziness.
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Livrsamento and Broja will be gone next season (and would be excellent additions to WHUFC)
Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Here comes the “never mind the quality feel the width approach” again.It has nothing to do with the size of the squad and everything to do with the ability of the players in it.sutts07 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:06 am Currently 8th, and again, a few around us are very close to our number but have to play games in hand. I think we will will end up around 6th or 7th in both goals scored and goals conceded, which by your metric would mean there is nothing much wrong with the team at all and we should all be happy with how this team is currently playing.
Our early season form is massively skewing our stats for the season. For the past few months we have been poor and that is largely due to us not having a big enough squad to cope with the demands on us.
As I said last night, don't get me wrong. I am very aware that finishing 7th and reaching the QFs of all other competitions is a decent benchmark for us right now. A few years of that would see us very well placed to kick on.
It is about people’s desires.
If you are happy to be regularly 8th-14th we can add players of that quality and increase the size appropriately. Yes we might win last night but it is 40 years since we won anything of note with that sort of approach. If your ambition is to aim for higher then finding the right players on our budget is a far more difficult task. It will inevitably mean a smaller squad but hopefully a better quality one.
People post how we will fall behind Southampton next year. With a squad a third of whom were missing for one reason or another, we were generally the more threatening side despite the result. The difference maker last night was a player unlikely to be with them next season in Broja.
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
I felt we were the better team for the majority of last night and were unlucky to come away with the result we did
The performance was an improvement on what we'd seen pre-Wolves for a while
I'm also glad we put out a strong team
On another day we win that game comfortably... it just wasn't our day yesterday.
The performance was an improvement on what we'd seen pre-Wolves for a while
I'm also glad we put out a strong team
On another day we win that game comfortably... it just wasn't our day yesterday.
Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Mismanaged into the top five. You might have half a point if we were in the same position as Leeds/Newcastle/Everton/Villa, but to call out Moyes as mismanaging when we are 5th in the table and have rarely been outside the top 6 in 18 months is idiotic.Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:41 am No, but people like you think he walks on water, I’ve never known a more protected WH manager. The mismanagement of the squad is down to him. Now course the fact he has them where they are is testament to him but imo he is leaving himself so much work to do this summer that if not done right I can see a proper scrap next year. My gripe with Antonio is simple. He isn’t a forward, he is a winger hence all his best work is done wide. The fact we rely on him so much isn’t his fault of course but he really isn’t that good.
Modern football is dominated by teams who play "wingers" as "forwards", Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea none play with a number 9 style "forward". For the record Antonio did his job well last night both with and without the ball and he scored. The game has moved on.
Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
The difference maker last night was the ref mate. He could have sent off the guy for elbowing Soucek (he threw his arm back to deter Tomas and break free as I saw it) and he could have given a foul for the Broja pull back on Dawson in the immediate contact prior to the tackle for the pen. Southampton are doing ok presently, but they have only one player I would take, Walker-Peters, otherwise they have no-one who would start for us, which is Moyes bench mark when looking to sign a player. Broja has promise, but he's a Chelsea player and will not be there next season, in fact he could be with us.Gsbgsb wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:05 pm Here comes the “never mind the quality feel the width approach” again.It has nothing to do with the size of the squad and everything to do with the ability of the players in it.
It is about people’s desires.
If you are happy to be regularly 8th-14th we can add players of that quality and increase the size appropriately. Yes we might win last night but it is 40 years since we won anything of note with that sort of approach. If your ambition is to aim for higher then finding the right players on our budget is a far more difficult task. It will inevitably mean a smaller squad but hopefully a better quality one.
People post how we will fall behind Southampton next year. With a squad a third of whom were missing for one reason or another, we were generally the more threatening side despite the result. The difference maker last night was a player unlikely to be with them next season in Broja.
- il_martello_di_genovesi
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
The most annoying thing with Diallo is that he was able to foul Rice late on and take a card as he wasn’t given one for his foul on Soucek. I thought the officiating was very poor last night.
Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Why have everyone back for a corner when you’re losing with ten minutes to go?
We should have been a bit more ambitious at the end. Put Dawson upfront or try one of the youngsters as sub. Nothing to lose.
We should have been a bit more ambitious at the end. Put Dawson upfront or try one of the youngsters as sub. Nothing to lose.
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Broja could well be part of a Dec deal. But then again (and not to digress too much), it depends on what goes on down at jolly old Stamford Bridge over the few months.simonirons wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:55 am Livrsamento and Broja will be gone next season (and would be excellent additions to WHUFC)
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
We were markedly the better team in every aspect except the one that matters, the scoreline.
The referee was abysmal. Madness that of the three head injuries I remember, the two he saw fit to ignore were both clearly painful whilst the one he stopped was a ball kicked into someone’s face from a yard away.
Wasn’t a pen, and it was a foul on Dawson before too. It was a handball, and they get a throw from there and go and score.
Diallo was lucky to be on the pitch but should be booked at least. As pointed out above, he then can’t pull Rice back (twice) or he does so and gets sent off.
For us, we were good but not without issues.
The new system makes the left much more secure but imbalances the right even more so than previously. Johnson isn’t great with the ball, so Bowen playing more central doesn’t help. Johnson was left to be the whole right flank. In the two games with the change of style, Bowen has lost rhythm and he loses the threat he gets as a winger cutting in.
My other issue was how badly we dealt with Southampton flooding the centre, mostly late on. We had no ability to play through it or out wide of it, for some reason. There was one ball on to Johnson, and it was one they left because he was isolated.
Benrahma was a hindrance. Vlasic being used on the left is setting him up to fail. On top of that, he took off Fornals who is the only dangerous forward passer we have. These last two games have been the best example of that, he spots things and tries things others just don’t. There are people who would countenance selling him when he’s got a skill set no one else in this team can match, and is vital defensively as well as in attack.
The referee was abysmal. Madness that of the three head injuries I remember, the two he saw fit to ignore were both clearly painful whilst the one he stopped was a ball kicked into someone’s face from a yard away.
Wasn’t a pen, and it was a foul on Dawson before too. It was a handball, and they get a throw from there and go and score.
Diallo was lucky to be on the pitch but should be booked at least. As pointed out above, he then can’t pull Rice back (twice) or he does so and gets sent off.
For us, we were good but not without issues.
The new system makes the left much more secure but imbalances the right even more so than previously. Johnson isn’t great with the ball, so Bowen playing more central doesn’t help. Johnson was left to be the whole right flank. In the two games with the change of style, Bowen has lost rhythm and he loses the threat he gets as a winger cutting in.
My other issue was how badly we dealt with Southampton flooding the centre, mostly late on. We had no ability to play through it or out wide of it, for some reason. There was one ball on to Johnson, and it was one they left because he was isolated.
Benrahma was a hindrance. Vlasic being used on the left is setting him up to fail. On top of that, he took off Fornals who is the only dangerous forward passer we have. These last two games have been the best example of that, he spots things and tries things others just don’t. There are people who would countenance selling him when he’s got a skill set no one else in this team can match, and is vital defensively as well as in attack.
- Eggs'n'nuts
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
I make you right regarding us being worked out. Hasenhüttl seemed to play us like a well worn fiddle last night. Make NINE changes, go in at half-time 1-0 up and then slowly start bringing on his first choice players. Something we couldn't do, because (and it's been said a million and one times before), we haven't got the strength, depth (and therefore different styles) in the squad to mix it up.happydaystoytown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:44 am This game followed a very familiar pattern that's been going on for the last 3 months.
We start well, waste opportunities and run out of ideas, the opposition keep it tight at the back and work like b*stards, closing us down, we can't keep hold of the ball, they gain confidence, sense we're there for the taking, they get their tails up, work even harder and then we're in real trouble!
Teams worked us out a while ago, give us time on the ball and we're very dangerous, work hard to close us down and we struggle.
Last night was an absolute choker but not surprising.
I've been thinking for a while that maybe we should be giving a youngster a go here and there. Surely it can't be any worse than the tried and trusted method of late. Other teams seem to do it with a degree of success.
Another thing regarding the officiating in general:
This isn't digging anyone out, because I do agree that the officials in this country are a f**king disgrace, but we can't keep laying the blame at their doorstep every single time the result doesn't go our way. We should have been at least two, if not three goals to the good last night before any shenanigans started to come into the equation.
Last edited by Eggs'n'nuts on Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Broja's goal was immensely disappointing. Never should've happened. Weak pathetic attempted header of a clearance right by the corner flag, fell to him, when there was no immediate danger on our goal. He shouldn't have scored from that point onwards, but he cut right through our back line as 3 defenders stood off him
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
Protected? I have not seen many on here 'protecting' the manager. Sure, plenty are 'supporting' him, isn't that we as 'supporters' are supposed to do? In many supporters eyes he has earned that support. He is obviously not above constructive opinion/criticism of course and I have seen some very good questions/opinions raised. As for mismanagement of the squad, I can hardly disagree more. Considering what he has had to work with over the past 2 years and what we have achieved, he and his coaching team have done marvelously. So mismanagement? I think not.Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:41 am No, but people like you think he walks on water, I’ve never known a more protected WH manager. The mismanagement of the squad is down to him. Now course the fact he has them where they are is testament to him but imo he is leaving himself so much work to do this summer that if not done right I can see a proper scrap next year. My gripe with Antonio is simple. He isn’t a forward, he is a winger hence all his best work is done wide. The fact we rely on him so much isn’t his fault of course but he really isn’t that good.
If you are questioning the depth and quality of our squad (and find him solely or partly at fault with that) I believe you will find many in agreement with you but, as they say, do you view our glass half full or half empty?
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
If Moyes made 9 changes last night and lost 3-1 in the fifth round of the FA Cup they’d have been riots. I would’ve been fuming.
Ultimately, we couldn’t finish our dinner last night.
Ultimately, we couldn’t finish our dinner last night.
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
an alternative view from a saints fan.....
Hassenhutl put everyting on the line last night and made 9 changes and won 3-1. He now has most of the starting 11 rested and ready for our game at the weekend, hell we could even overtake West Ham, have you seen there schedule for the rest of the season, it's worse then nearly all the teams from 4-10th? I would have been fuming had we lost, but we didn't.
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Re: ⚽ Southampton v West Ham Utd FAC5: match thread
If you've never known a more protected manager you must be very, very young.Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:41 am No, but people like you think he walks on water, I’ve never known a more protected WH manager. The mismanagement of the squad is down to him. Now course the fact he has them where they are is testament to him but imo he is leaving himself so much work to do this summer that if not done right I can see a proper scrap next year. My gripe with Antonio is simple. He isn’t a forward, he is a winger hence all his best work is done wide. The fact we rely on him so much isn’t his fault of course but he really isn’t that good.
I've never known a manager who has been greeted with such hostility and animosity. The fact that the team has done so well is why "people like me" are rightly dismissive of those whose opinions are so faddish and short term.
The big picture is that this club is in it's best two season league run in ages, possibly ever. When was the last time the club reached the last 16 of three cup competitions in the same season? Well, before you were even a twinkle in your father's eye, I'd guess.
Also, if you think a striker like Antonio with 19 goals and assists (15 PL) so far this season isn't doing a decent job at striker then you have a really unrealistic expectation of what a player should achieve.
How many players have more G+A than Antonio in the PL this season? Two. One is Bowen and the other is Salah. So, if he's not good enough for you, and you presumably think Bowen is not a striker, there's only one player left.
Moyes knows a lot more about this stuff than you (or I) do and it would be foolish for either of us to pretend otherwise. It doesn't make him infallible, nor does it mean he gets everything right - but he gets a damn sight more right than he gets wrong, and he's the first West Ham manager to do that in decades.
He should be backed on his terms. Deep down, he clearly doesn't rate many of the players outside the starting XI and he will, like all managers at this club, always have to work with the parameters set by Sullivan.