US Abortion Laws

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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by -DL- »

RichieRiv wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:49 pm Regarding my opinions, I think you would be surprised. My mum has always said you can be a socialist with a small s, but I prefer Michael Caine's outlook - both a Right-Wing Socialist and a Left-Wing Capitalist. I believe in universal healthcare, free at source, but I don't believe it is run efficiently and it should first look to how it spends the money it has got before asking for more. I believe in the benefits to help those who need them. I don't however believe it should be a lifestyle choice and an alternative to work. I believe in social housing, but I also believe that if you have lived somewhere for a period of time, you have the right to buy. I believe in the free market, but I also think that if the free market cannot keep itself in order, it should be regulated. I think companies should have the right to dispose of staff that are not performing with little friction, however, I also believe employees deserve protection from unscrupulous employers. I do not believe that national infrastructure or utilities should be private i.e. trains, energy etc however I do not think that should be quasi-governmental and inefficient.

Basically, I want my cake and eat it.
'Kin 'ell. That's eerily familiar :shock:
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by sendô »

I agree with most of that RR. :newthumb:
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by RichieRiv »

On the whole gents, most people simply want balance. A liberal democracy where the state only interferes when its needed.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

RichieRiv wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:49 pm Regarding my opinions, I think you would be surprised.
Not as surprised as you'd think Richie. Good post by the way. I agree with much if not all of it which brings me to this. My theory is this. Just like in real life, most, not all, but most of us on here would probably if we were in a pub together argue the toss about some things but largely agree with each other on most things. Yet, I for one, rarely comment when someone says something I agree with but am far more likely to respond if they say something I disagree with. I doubt I'm alone in that and suspect this means that our similarities are rarely acknowledged or obvious whilst our differences get amplified and exaggerated.

I'm one to talk I know - Ive been arguing the toss today on a another thread with someone that I have respect for even though the chances that we'd never vote for the same political party are pretty much zilch. But, whilst not today, many of his posts on other subjects I am in agreement with but rarely comment on. Anyway, i digress for the thread's topic so I'll shut up :) except to say the unity on this thread from all of us against this Taliban-esque Texas measure shows that regardless of political persuasion, as a group, we can often be quite a united bunch.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by last.caress »

DaveWHU1964 wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:26 pm I for one, rarely comment when someone says something I agree with but am far more likely to respond if they say something I disagree with. I doubt I'm alone in that and suspect this means that our similarities are rarely acknowledged or obvious whilst our differences get amplified and exaggerated.
We're veering off-topic here a little but there have been some excellent posts above, from Dave and Richie in particular, and I couldn't let this one from Dave pass without registering my strong agreement with the sentiment. There are several posters in the GD and to a lesser degree here in NUMB with whom I agree and have agreed with such unerring regularity that, as a result, I've weirdly barely exchanged more than a tiny handful of posts with them. And yet if those posters could've seen the number of approving nods their posts received down the years they'd think I was coming onto them! :)
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Samba »

DaveWHU1964 wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:10 pmThat also applies to science. Now to be clear, for me scientists are best placed to talk about their subjects of expertise rather than you and me but that doesn't make them infallible - just more knowledgeable in their fields of expertise than laymen like us. But scientific understanding changes with time
That's the 'trouble' with religions; they don't.
That of course, is largely their 'strength'. Immutable belief is all & forever powerful. Something you can't prove, you also can't disprove; blind faith.
The real trouble is when 'believers' impose THEIR beliefs on other people & how THEY should be living their lives.
Imo, religion really should have no place in politics in this day & age & in this country it pretty much doesn't at all, although a watchful eye should always be kept on the subject & what could happen in the distant future.
As for the US on issues like this, ironically, they're not really living in 'the land of the free'.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Morocco Mole »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:03 pm Just mental. Keep thinking that the yanks seemed to start going downhill after Bandaid, does that line up with Regan? I can't recall as I had no interest in politics
Revered by the Right and ‘movement conservatives’ in particular, Reagan was a disaster for the US, on many levels (his role in the demise of the USSR notwithstanding - and that’s another debate in itself)
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Morocco Mole »

RichieRiv wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:12 pm On the whole gents, most people simply want balance. A liberal democracy where the state only interferes when its needed.
Most of us are centrists but end up arguing on the fringes for some reason. :newthumb:
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by RichieRiv »

As I look this thread off road I will try and get us back onto the tarmac.

I think the curious thing about the US is that there is a preconceived stereotype. Those on the West Coast and upper East Coast are the liberals and everyone in between is a gun wielding religious maniac. I've even spoken to those on east seaboard that think that.

Now of you visit Freemont Street in Vegas you will be surrounded by ten gallon hat, Nascar jacket, cowboy boot wearing oddballs with some strange ideas about life. But my experience of the people of Minnesota (not all of them I hasten to add) was a group of mostly liberal, free choice, interested in world politics etc etc. Of course they still had their cultural aspects - mainly hunting and ice fishing, but they all like a round of golf in summer.

A few weeks ago I met Mrs RR's boss and her husband (I had to do the dutiful husband routine). They live in Jacksonville but were originally from Millwuakee (I asked whether they knew the Fonz) and again they were very Liberal, critical of several administrations, felt strongly about free at source healthcare (I replicating the NHS) as well as employment right in the state. In fact the first think Bob said to me was "please don't all thing we are gun toting rednecks. He talked lovingly about Europe, respected the sacrifices this country made in the Second World War, saod it was criminal that they turned up late and said it's ridiculous how Americans hold onto their faux heritage.

I think I may have converted him to West Ham when I told him about our history and how we are the popr relation in London.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Morocco Mole »

Florida is about as 50/50 red/blue as it gets in the US. There is an eternal battle there over voting rights/access because every single vote makes a difference (see 2000 election). In simple terms Republican incumbents like to restrict voting as poorer demographics tend to vote Dem and vice versa (this is a major theme in the US generally at the minute). I don’t personally know too many Dems in FL though I must admit.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Shabu »

Morocco Mole wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:13 am Florida is about as 50/50 red/blue as it gets in the US. There is an eternal battle there over voting rights/access because every single vote makes a difference (see 2000 election). In simple terms Republican incumbents like to restrict voting as poorer demographics tend to vote Dem and vice versa (this is a major theme in the US generally at the minute). I don’t personally know too many Dems in FL though I must admit.
I've lived in Miami & many of the Cubans are very right or should I say anti Socialist.

Fort Lauderdale where most don't seem to care about politics

Naples, old, very rich, very white, very American supremacy

Venice, a slightly less version of Naples.

Ditto Sarasota. These three towns mainly get the old people from the middle. Follow the I75 freeway up.

Then I lived in St Petersburg which I thought was the Liberal Capitol of Florida, both politically and socially. Lots of Californians moving there in search of a cheaper life.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Morocco Mole »

Space Coast through to Orlando and up to Ocala, Gainesville and central FL - Right wing Cracker as f***. :)
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Shabu »

A woman in Texas has been charged with murder after a self induced abortion.

This is ****ing sickening...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... 9525548002
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by OFT »

As LC says, superb posting on here. :newthumb:




Shabu wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:42 am A woman in Texas has been charged with murder after a self induced abortion.

This is ****ing sickening...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... 9525548002
Dreadful.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by sendô »

Shabu wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:42 am A woman in Texas has been charged with murder after a self induced abortion.

This is ****ing sickening...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... 9525548002
Honestly, if something like that happened in somewhere like Iraq or Saudi Arabia we’d all be rolling our eyes at the barbaric, backwards civilisations.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Greatest Cockney Rip Off »

RichieRiv wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:22 pmreligion is a personal thing and no one is trying to convert you. That's how it should be.
Me too, 100% and it shouldn't define you either. If it does, then you need to take a look at yourself.

Believe in what you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else should do too and get the f*** over the fact that most won't.
Shabu wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:42 am A woman in Texas has been charged with murder after a self induced abortion.

This is ****ing sickening...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... 9525548002
FFS! Under Biden's watch too. Surely this can't ever go to court?
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by RichieRiv »

Greatest Cockney Rip Off wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:58 pm Me too, 100% and it shouldn't define you either. If it does, then you need to take a look at yourself.

Believe in what you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else should do too and get the **** over the fact that most won't.
If people wish to define themselves thats up to them. After all the ex-Rev has devoted his life to his faith and that of others. I don't see any preaching in his Christmas message, I don't see him trying to convert people.

Does he need to get over himself? Do you think he needs to understand that others have no wish to following religion?
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Shabu »

Greatest Cockney Rip Off wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:58 pm Me too, 100% and it shouldn't define you either. If it does, then you need to take a look at yourself.

Believe in what you want, but that doesn't mean everyone else should do too and get the **** over the fact that most won't.



FFS! Under Biden's watch too. Surely this can't ever go to court?
Abortions may be made illegal under Biden's watch as the Supreme Court gets to make the decisions.

It reminds me a bit of the UK/ Brexit thing. Many wanted out because no matter which way they voted the ultimate decisions were made by someone they didn't vote for.

Seems a bit like that in the USA with the Supreme Court.

There should be a term of 18 years so one of them changes every two years.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Greatest Cockney Rip Off »

RichieRiv wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:17 pm If people wish to define themselves thats up to them. After all the ex-Rev has devoted his life to his faith and that of others. I don't see any preaching in his Christmas message, I don't see him trying to convert people.
I never said that. My comment was aimed at those specifically wishing to have the law changed to suit their personal beliefs, it was aimed at those wishing to seek special treatment because of what they believe in and those who wish to use it as a crutch. As you said, it's a personal thing.
Does he need to get over himself? Do you think he needs to understand that others have no wish to following religion?
No, because he's not advocating laws to be changed, not trying to convert people and not seeking out special treatment.

As I said, my comment was aimed at those individuals and nations who fall into the above categories.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by sendô »

Shabu wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:36 am
Seems a bit like that in the USA with the Supreme Court.

There should be a term of 18 years so one of them changes every two years.
They serve for life once appointed don’t they?

Honestly, considering they call themselves “the land of the free” the more you look at the US system you realise how undemocratic it actually is.
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