US Abortion Laws

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thamesideiron
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by thamesideiron »

last.caress wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:33 am I agree with this random on Twitter. I only hope his message can somehow reach someone in a position of power in the US:

Very much this..I touched on it before...Double whammy really,Taking away peoples freedom to decide their own Lives,
But Specifically the less well off.
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Samba
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Samba »

WCpete wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:04 am This is all a part of it, imo.

She's a right charmer...

Freudian slip, or......?
:shock:
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Arnold Layne
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Arnold Layne »

f*** me,we’re living in The Age of Regression.
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sendô
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by sendô »

The fundamental issue with US politics is they hang everything on what is or is not stated in a document written nearly 250 years ago. The world has moved on but many Americans have not.

Unfortunately the way their system is it's very difficult to amend any of that document, particularly when there are groups that stand to lose so much money. The people could demand it of course, but their propaganda has them believing that they're the only nation with "freedom".

It's ironic really, because as I've got older and seen more of what actually goes on over there, you realise that most of them have far less freedom than we do.

There's plenty of problems with the political system in the UK, and I'll moan like f*** about it as much as anyone, but at least we have the ability to elect a government to overturn laws we dislike or are outdated, or to bring in much needed new legislation. Their political system just seems to be the President doing PR and deciding whether or not to go to war, their Congress which is both sides just blocking each other off, and their Supreme Court which is where the real power lies and where laws get changed according to how they all interpret a document that said black people were worth 3/5ths of a person.

Land Of The Free indeed. :thdn:
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by RichieRiv »

I think the irony of it all, is the consistution and structure of government was introduce to prevent British tyranny ever happening again.
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S-H
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by S-H »

Not long now..

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WCpete
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by WCpete »

Ex Trump press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders who is running to be Governor of Arkansas has made a concerted effort to combine threads.

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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by OFT »

I don't know why these lunatics continue to surprise me with their ramblings but they do.

Is the U.S. in effect being governed by former president Trump and his rabid underlings?
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

thamesideiron wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:07 pm Very much this..I touched on it before...Double whammy really,Taking away peoples freedom to decide their own Lives,
But Specifically the less well off.
I don't know the ins and outs of US healthcare. Were abortions free while they were a constitutional right?
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thamesideiron
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by thamesideiron »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:30 am I don't know the ins and outs of US healthcare. Were abortions free while they were a constitutional right?
Obviously varies state to state...would assume as over here,if you have a legitimate case,it would be free,but obviously insurance would
play a part in it...but good point,still boils down to, Rich can Afford what the Poorer off can't for something that should be the same
for every woman/man.

What I was more getting at is, with the Law Change in certain states...with no Abortions allowed under any circumstance..
For a Woman/Family on low income/benefits,it would be nigh on impossible to get access to a valid Clinic/Hospital to help her with
what she needs..
The Wealthier wouldn't have that problem,would simply fly to a State where still legal,say California to a registered Clinic and have the
procedure
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Morocco Mole »

Re. Justice Samuel Alito’s invocation of Lord Matthew Hale. Off Twitter but also all over the US mainstream media - Washington Post Op. Ed.- I rather liked this vernacular take - citation at the bottom…..

"Justice Alito's invocation of Sir Matthew Hale in his leaked majority opinion is so, so much more fu*ked up than people realize. I'm a professor with a PhD, and my area of expertise happens to be women and gender in the early modern era (1500-1700). Here is what you need to know.
Matthew Hale, just like a lot of Christian extremists today, believed that women were made from Adam's rib. God did not make her as an autonomous being with rights. She was a physical extension of his body, made to be his "helpmeet," namely to exist to help him to whatever he wants.
Hale therefore wrote in his posthumously published book Historia Placitorum Coronæ (1713) that marital rape was totally legal. In fact, because a man owned a woman's body as it was an extension of his own to do with whatever he willed, he was incapable of marital rape.
The logic was that you can't rape something that isn't considered an independent human being. Your wife's body is yours and you can't rape yourself. This is the logic Alito is upholding when he invokes Matthew Hale. But it gets worse.
Let's say a woman vocalized her opinion and it ran contrary to her husband's. She didn't want sex. Hale believed that this put her in violation of her marital vows. She was literally breaking the law. Women who denied men sex needed to be punished.
There was a whole set of laws at the time specifically on the punishment of women who spoke up against the men in their lives. They didn't have the legal authority to say no to sex because they were not legally independent human beings.
Keep in mind that Hale and others also viewed a father's role in a similar way. The daughter had no bodily autonomy, & it was a father's duty to "correct" his children as long as he did so within the law. Daughters were groomed from an early age to be obedient to future husbands.
It should be no surprise that Hale was responsible for the trial and execution of women for witchcraft and that his legal opinion would be used as a base for the execution of women and children by the state both in England and the Americas.
The big witch trial Hale was known for was the 1662 trial of Rose Cullender and Amy Duny. It followed many of the trial conventions of the day with bonkers stories of toads, vomiting pins, etc. Both women were widows and found guilty.
Women who were executed by the state for witchcraft were overwhelmingly poor and single. Most were widows. Hale & his contemporaries found independent women to be a serious threat in society. She was not owned by father or husband, which meant that she was an unnatural presence.
Women without a man to tightly control their behaviors were viewed as extremely susceptible to immorality and becoming a Satanic force in the community. Hale believed it was in society's best interest for men of the state to step in and control these women.
A woman's primary purpose in adulthood was to be married, be obedient to a man, & to have children. Alito invoking Hale in his opinion made it clear that he also thinks this too. It's his duty as a man to put the bodily fate of women in the hands of states run by white men.
Keep in mind that Hale was only talking about white Christian women. Women who didn't fall into this category were debated as even being women. They were viewed as less than human with even less rights. The rule of thumb didn't apply; they weren't worthy of such restraint.
Are you starting to see why Alito's invocation of Hale is so deeply, deeply fuc*ed up on so many insane levels that there isn't a way to possibly overreact to how shi**y his legal standing is here? Rage, horror, disgust, etc. are not deep enough reactions to his legal opinion.
And if you think Hale being invoked by Alito was something out of left field, think again. Hale is all over our legal system. The easiest application to find was the Salem Witch Trials, but his influence on our laws is much more insidious than that. Marital rape was not completely outlawed in the United States until 1993.
When Alito talks about going back to what the founding fathers meant, he is talking about all of this sh*t. Women's bodies being legally owned and controlled by men. He knows many Christian white women are groomed theologically to agree and will vote for this patriarchal control.
Alito knows that by kicking reproductive control back to the states that he is putting an incredible amount of power in the hands of the men who control these communities. He knows that white men are disproportionately in charge of these places.
Alito knows how much power and influence local churches have on local leadership. He knows most of these institutions are controlled by men. He is counting on it. He knows the biggest threat to women are the men in their homes and communities.
Justice Alito and men like him do not see women as independent human beings with their own human rights. They see us as incapable of making our own decisions. They consider men to be divinely appointed to rule over women. This is not an exaggeration.
If they think of white Christian women this way, imagine what they think about women of color, women of non-Christian groups, or trans women and men. The utter disdain towards them is deep, disturbing, incomprehensible, and violent."

— @Literature_Lady
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Cockneyboy311
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Cockneyboy311 »

Bible bashing loonies. What makes me laugh is how un-christian a lot of what they do is. Hypocrites.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Turns to Stone »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:30 am I don't know the ins and outs of US healthcare. Were abortions free while they were a constitutional right?
I was reading something about this the other day - it's $750, but is usually covered or partially covered in your healthcare. If you don't have insurance - you have to find $750 (plus all the extras they add in the US such as overnight stay if you need one etc).

I've also heard that there are a fair few deaths per year of women either getting back alley abortions, or even attempting them themselves. This was told to me by a very strong pro-choice believer in the States. Having said that, she's very well educated and I'd imagine she's probably accurate.

I know that there are more aborition related deaths in countries where abortion is illegal in the first 14 weeks than in others, and it's always the poor who are hit hardest.
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thamesideiron
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by thamesideiron »

Often think about this...
Is it right that a Court,however high they might call themselves....Supreme whatever,Should they have the right to Overrule/Overturn Laws
that have been put in place by a Democractically Elected Government on things of National interest/concern.
Indeed Laws that are in Place due to Previous Court Cases,that have been decided and Judged.

This lets the Views/Opinions of a Dozen Judges,Nine in States is it....to Speak for Millions of people that have elected a Government
to represent them, that has different opinions to the Judges in question.

If The Government in power can be called out and decisions/laws questioned and changed...then surely the Judges have to be Questioned
on their decisions...and so it goes on...Shouldn't the final decision be made by the Elected Government of the People.

If the Government in question F**k up...they get Democratically get Voted out,and the People put another one in their place.

IMO Courts shouldn't decide a Nations Direction and Future that's for the people of that Country Via the Government.

The Legal system is an integral part of our society,but to give them complete power,in cases like this,I don't know...
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

thamesideiron wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:01 pm Obviously varies state to state...would assume as over here,if you have a legitimate case,it would be free,but obviously insurance would
play a part in it...but good point,still boils down to, Rich can Afford what the Poorer off can't for something that should be the same
for every woman/man.

What I was more getting at is, with the Law Change in certain states...with no Abortions allowed under any circumstance..
For a Woman/Family on low income/benefits,it would be nigh on impossible to get access to a valid Clinic/Hospital to help her with
what she needs..
The Wealthier wouldn't have that problem,would simply fly to a State where still legal,say California to a registered Clinic and have the
procedure
I wasn't arguing your point at all, I didn't know if Medicare or something covered it.

Obviously travel will a problem in many more cases now and (from reading up) it wasnt exactly easy to access services before this ruling.
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Turns to Stone wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:39 pm I was reading something about this the other day - it's $750, but is usually covered or partially covered in your healthcare. If you don't have insurance - you have to find $750 (plus all the extras they add in the US such as overnight stay if you need one etc).
Cheers TTS. There was always something of a wealth division, I guess that's bound to be the case without national health services.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Shabu »

Some great & enlightening posts on here.

Basically, if you believe wholeheartedly in the bible & the US Constitution - which half of white America does - then you believe that a woman is made from a man's rib & just an extension of man, while a non white person is three 5ths of a white person - AT BEST.

So everything they're doing is geared towards restoring white men at the top of the realm, supported by a Stepford wife, and served upon by a team of grateful black & brown people.

The Civil Rights movement from the 1960s up until Obamas election were a slow steady stream of hell for them. And they're fighting back.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Georgee Paris »

I went to a school where we were encouraged to wear pro-life / little golden feet that symbolised the age of babies at the point of abortion. It didn’t matter that we had little real work experience, we were told abortion was wrong. I hate a lot about my going to an all boy catholic school but this is one of the things that still upsets me even now.
This is all so messed up I hope anyone that is found guilty of causing a pregnancy via rape or abuse is sent to death row.
Why couldn’t they roll out the pill for all men or bring out a rule that all men should have the snip as soon as they are sexually capable. This could then be reversed when the man is in a relationship and both he and his wife want children.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Georgee Paris wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:07 am I went to a school where we were encouraged to wear pro-life / little golden feet that symbolised the age of babies at the point of abortion. It didn’t matter that we had little real work experience, we were told abortion was wrong. I hate a lot about my going to an all boy catholic school but this is one of the things that still upsets me even now.
This is all so messed up I hope anyone that is found guilty of causing a pregnancy via rape or abuse is sent to death row.
Why couldn’t they roll out the pill for all men or bring out a rule that all men should have the snip as soon as they are sexually capable. This could then be reversed when the man is in a relationship and both he and his wife want children.
TBF, that's plain ridiculous (having the snip), I wouldn't want any unnecessary surgery on my bits. What if there's a complication?

What have blokes done to tarnish themselves as requiring culling?

I feel sorry for my son, if this is where 'freedoms' are going to end, everyone is equal, just some more than others.
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Re: US Abortion Laws

Post by sendô »

Georgee Paris wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:07 am Why couldn’t they roll out the pill for all men or bring out a rule that all men should have the snip as soon as they are sexually capable.
Because of bodily autonomy, which is the entire point here GP.
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