Brentford 2-0 West Ham Utd (10/4/22)

[Bubbles Fortuna]

With everyone saying that the first XI were keeping their eye on the prize, resting themselves and that it was predictable, understandable and not botherable then, pray tell, why not play some reserves?

If ever there was a time to play half a dozen others then this was it.

Do you reckon Moyes has exactly the same thing for dinner every night?

No team makes six changes between European matches, we just simply do not have the squad for it.

Had we started Diop, Masuaku, Kral, Noble, Yarmolenko we'd have been absolutely battered.

[paulhs1]

With everyone saying that the first XI were keeping their eye on the prize, resting themselves and that it was predictable, understandable and not botherable then, pray tell, why not play some reserves?

If ever there was a time to play half a dozen others then this was it.

Do you reckon Moyes has exactly the same thing for dinner every night?

I'm genuinely keen to see what Moyes does next week against Burnley, who coincidently also have a game on Thursday. Another 120 minute game and i'd genuinely be amazed if he sticks with pretty much the same 11.

[paulhs1]

No team makes six changes between European matches, we just simply do not have the squad for it.

Had we started Diop, Masuaku, Kral, Noble, Yarmolenko we'd have been absolutely battered.

Other than Lyon who made 6 changes from the team who played us last week.

[TwoTubs]

Arsenal, Wolves and Man Utd all lost over the weekend, was that down to tiredness, and being flogged to death too?

It happens, I don't understand the obsession with over analyzing, and blaming poor performances and results on tiredness and bad transfer windows, assuming when we win, it's in spite of the same reasons of course.

We were crap, and we lost to the better team, there doesn't need to be anything else to it.

Agree with this 100%.

As we always seems to say after reading the Opposition View, we never get credit for winning. Brentford won, it happens, move on. Yes we were awful, but they took advantage and did us. We hate it when teams give excuses for losing and not conceding that we beat them because we were better on the day.

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

Other than Lyon who made 6 changes from the team who played us last week.

They did, but much like we did with Coufal and Lanzini, some of the players who came in are with the aim to play more on Thursday I would think. Thiago Mendes missed out with a knock, so that was forced. Toko Ekambi comes back in after covid, Denayer and Tete having their fitness built up and both I would think will be starting for them before the end of the season. Other than that, they started with their main midfield 3, striker and GK.

[Oldun]

Other than Lyon who made 6 changes from the team who played us last week.

The only difference is that Lyon are mid table not pushing for champions league position in their league and we were.
Moyes put out his strongest team to push for 4th place and it backfired badly,poor form and an injury with the players he picked.

[kitthehammer]

No team makes six changes between European matches, we just simply do not have the squad for it.

Had we started Diop, Masuaku, Kral, Noble, Yarmolenko we'd have been absolutely battered.

well we lost anyway and all we have achieved is playing brentford with exactly the same set up as we lost to them last time so all they had to do was exactly as they did at the london stadium, our first team are more tired than they were and we got one player injured so that's two of our usual defence out v lyon,

No i probably wouldn't have played kral or masuaku, but we could have saved antonio, bowen, one or both of rice or soucek, zouma, by playing benrahma, yarmolenko, vlasic, noble, Diop. and given brentford something else to consider and definitely been stronger for lyon.

[paulhs1]

They did, but much like we did with Coufal and Lanzini, some of the players who came in are with the aim to play more on Thursday I would think. Thiago Mendes missed out with a knock, so that was forced. Toko Ekambi comes back in after covid, Denayer and Tete having their fitness built up and both I would think will be starting for them before the end of the season. Other than that, they started with their main midfield 3, striker and GK.

I suspect Boateng, Gusto and Emerson all start on Sunday. Auoar, Ndombele, Tete and Dembele all got subbed without playing the full game.

It's fairly obvious that Lyon heavily squad rotated yesterday and we chose not to. Let's see if it makes a difference on Thursday.

[El brooko79]

I'm genuinely keen to see what Moyes does next week against Burnley, who coincidently also have a game on Thursday. Another 120 minute game and i'd genuinely be amazed if he sticks with pretty much the same 11.

Firstly please don't spoil the anticipation of the should we rotate vs Burnley thread.
I expect you to be campaigning as I will, for sensible changes.

But more importantly Burnleys next game is us on Sunday. They play the following Thursday night vs Saints.

[paulhs1]

The only difference is that Lyon are mid table not pushing for champions league position in their league and we were.
Moyes put out his strongest team to push for 4th place and it backfired badly,poor form and an injury with the players he picked.

You see this is where I disagree. My point is that a 100% Yarmolenko is a "stronger" option then a 60% Antonio who's mentally and physically shattered.

Playing Yamolenko yesterday would in my view have been playing our strongest team. But next Thursday with one weeks rest playing Antonio is playing our strongest player.

I'm genuinely bamboozled as to how people cannot grasp this concept!

[paulhs1]

Firstly please don't spoil the anticipation of the should we rotate vs Burnley thread.
I expect you to be campaigning as I will, for sensible changes.

But more importantly Burnleys next game is us on Sunday. They play the following Thursday night vs Saints.

I stand corrected Brooko, in that case we will definitely need some changes

[Oldun]

You see this is where I disagree. My point is that a 100% Yarmolenko is a "stronger" option then a 60% Antonio who's mentally and physically shattered.

Playing Yamolenko yesterday would in my view have been playing our strongest team. But next Thursday with one weeks rest playing Antonio is playing our strongest player.

I'm genuinely bamboozled as to how people cannot grasp this concept!

I said it was Moyes strongest team,not mine and he is the manager and picks the team and not me or you.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

No team makes six changes between European matches, we just simply do not have the squad for it.

Had we started Diop, Masuaku, Kral, Noble, Yarmolenko we'd have been absolutely battered.

Doubtful. We didn't get battered by Man U or Man City in the cup with those players in the team
We may have got beat. We may have no but those players would have been well up for a start so we would t have got battered

We ended up surrendering meekly anyway

[MB]

No team makes six changes between European matches, we just simply do not have the squad for it.

Had we started Diop, Masuaku, Kral, Noble, Yarmolenko we'd have been absolutely battered.

Leicester made seven. But that is what a few seasons in Europe allows you as you can build a decent squad as they know there are enough games to go around whereas, as you say, our back ups are nor good enough.

[the pink palermo]

With everyone saying that the first XI were keeping their eye on the prize, resting themselves and that it was predictable, understandable and not botherable then, pray tell, why not play some reserves?

If ever there was a time to play half a dozen others then this was it.

Do you reckon Moyes has exactly the same thing for dinner every night?

There could be any number of reasons not to play "some reserves", such as...

1. He simply doesn't believe any of them are any good.

I cite Benny, Diop, Vlasic, Kral and Arthur as demonstrable evidence.

2. He makes multiple changes against a team arguably fighting a relegation battle, and he gets fined £30k by the PL/FA

I cite Mick Macarthy as evidence. He got done while Wolves manager for this.

3. He has an ongoing battle with his boss as to whether the reserves are any good and doesn't want to encourage his boss by picking plyers he has already deemed crap.

4. He doesn't want to go full allardyce and throw all of the promising U23's under a bus as they ain't ready

I cite Forest away in the FA cup.

[Turns to Stone]

I thin physically, our players are up to it. They have shown it all season that they can all put themselves out there week-in, week-out and run and run and run. However, they are not mentally up to it. No-one is.

Thursday's game will be the biggest most of our players have ever played in, probably the biggest most will ever play in.

I don't want to keep harping back to January, but this is where we went wrong. 1 or 2 players coming in who can just share that load. Another striker, another forward, another central midfielder. Someone who can just help.

I don't care about the loss yesterday, we're nailed on for top 8 which is an incredible achievement on the bounce, especially when you add in a Europa quarter-final. They've given me some great nights this year and I'll always remember this season. That Seville game will go down in folklore.

But if we do want to try and keep our players going mentally, Rice, Antonio, Dawson, Cresswell - these lads need a break. They can't keep the mental side upfor 50 games a season, and they shouldn't be expected to.

[steveyrockstar]

There was a moment earlyish in the 2nd half, shortly after Brentford had scored, when they showed the result probability - something that they seem to do in every match now. Brentford had a win probability of approx 70% and we had a win probability of 6%. This despite their only being one goal in it and some 40mins left to play.

Anyone know how these probability figures are calculated? Is there actually scientific, mathematical rationale behind it, or is it literally some bored bloke sitting at a TV thinking, 'hmmm, west ham are playing really **** today, I reckon there's only 6% chance of them winning'?

[TwoTubs]

There was a moment earlyish in the 2nd half, shortly after Brentford had scored, when they showed the result probability - something that they seem to do in every match now. Brentford had a win probability of approx 70% and we had a win probability of 6%. This despite their only being one goal in it and some 40mins left to play.

Anyone know how these probability figures are calculated? Is there actually scientific, mathematical rationale behind it, or is it literally some bored bloke sitting at a TV thinking, 'hmmm, west ham are playing really **** today, I reckon there's only 6% chance of them winning'?

Probably some predictor using past results etc.

DId make me laugh when they said we had a 6% chance

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

Chucking Benny in a list of reserves with Diop, Kral and Masuaku. Big lol.

[steveyrockstar]

Probably some predictor using past results etc.

DId make me laugh when they said we had a 6% chance

Which wouldn't make any sense given our respective league positions and our form for 2nd half goals and coming back from behind. I'd love to know the calculation behind it. When I saw the 6% win probability, I thought wow, the probability of us winning isn't that much greater than the probability of getting seriously ill with covid.

Well, sort of. I'm sure you get my point.